Its really depressing watching Ukraine get ragged by a larger nation while all its neighbors sit on the sidelines and watch. Deploy troops to Ukraine it wont trigger nuclear war.
Drone’s name is Geran-5.
It is also made in Russia, not in Iran. Nor does Iran produce such a (or somehow similar) drone. Nor does Iran claim any rights to it.
Calling it Shahed is a very weird propaganda twist.
The original drone design was based on prop driven shaheed drones, which were both supplied directly by Iran as well as being manufactured (and further developed) in Russia.
Calling it a propaganda twist ignores how the thing came to be.
Ok, but Iran's Shahed drone design is not indigenous either, but based on a German drone design from the 1980s[1] which Germany never deployed because the Cold War ended soon after, but Iran found a use for such a design.
Everyone keeps iterating on someone else's previous work. That's how it works.
I am not saying this drones is Iran made (it is most likely built by gang pressed teenagers in Alabuga like other Geran drones) just that Iran has a bunch of drone designs, including jet powered ones:
Good question, why did Russia rename the Shahed-131 to Geran-1? Those are allegedly Iranian made, and Geran-2 is allegedly a slightly modified Shahed-136. Of course, as they keep modifying them they slowly become their own thing, but there's a clear tech ancestry.
"Drone" is an overloaded term. I'm not sure what someone means when they say "drone" (an FPV drone? an MQ-9?) When someone mentions "Shahed" I immediately know what's being talked about. It disambiguates what's being discussed.
Many also describe the US-made LUCAS drone as a Shahed clone, which clear up what role this system fills.
Ukraine needs Patriot or an equivalent air to ground capability, but those are extremely expensive.
It sounds like the prop-driven shaheds were being intercepted with prop-driven drones piloted manually? I suppose that shows the relevant technology for guidance has been kept secret enough that it's not instantly being cloned, or is more expensive than human operators.
Well, the propeller interceptors worked - it forced the Russians to upgrade their attack drones to use jet engines, making them more expensive. Still an issue if they get through but also a question if they can do a big swarm the same way the could with the lawnmower engine type.
Also I expect similar Ukrainian adaptation using some sort of jet propulsion or even rocket assistance to counter them. Not to mention getting a jet powered response in the Russian direction.
Guidance to hit a stationary target is easier than to hit a moving target. Especially considering the shaheds aren't particularly exact about what stationary target they hit.
In an economic battle, I continue wondering why Ukraine has interceptors which detonate instead of being armed with projectiles. High speed cameras and low latency bridgewire ignition, coupled with AI targeting should enable single shot targeting with high probability of success. Multiple reusable interceptors seems like a better solution than expendable. At the same build rate, the number of interceptors per incoming drone will grow over time, instead of maintaining equivalence.
I also wondered the same until I saw that Rheinmetall produced that type of defense system you describe (I think in 2024 or so). And I think that except for Rheinmetall, nobody gives them this type of weapon (seems other countries have something similar), but it's probably a handful of them deployed in maybe very few locations.
I don't think it's that simple to build it, otherwise they would have all done it.
The problem with that is that behind the Rheinmetall brand name it's actually made by Switzerland's former Oerlikon before the Rheinmetall acquisition, and Switzerland doesn't sell military gear to countries currently at war due to its neutrality status. So for Ukraine it might as well be vaporware as they aint getting it (officially).
I've wondered the same thing. After watching the footage of some of these drone intercepts I realized the camera view interceptors are very erratic. My guess is that shooting a drone down from another cheap interceptor drone is just too difficult to do reliably. I understand that the cost of the interceptors are preferable than the cost of letting them hit their targets, and I understand that they are still an order of magnitude cheaper than the long-range Geran drones they are shooting down.
Given that they show footage of men shooting down similar drones from airplanes, perhaps they can eventually build a larger more stable platform with a more reliable aim using projectiles.
More moving parts would mean a much more complex system which would heighten maintenance cost and likely lower successful interceptions per working system significantly.
I'm sure the Ukrainians can draw two curves and see where they intercept
I think the current interceptors are optimized for one way attack - just enough flight time to catch the target and detonate. Any extra systems (such as guns or recovery hardware) make the interceptor more expensive.
Also these kamikaze drones are not flying in huge flocks like WW2 bomber that tried to cover each other with machine guns - even if a gun armed interceptor shoots one down, it might not be able to intercept another during the raid.
Some bigger, L-39 sized jet drones on the other hand could be quite capable, possibly launching separate one-way interceptors on top of guns.
It just seems like everyone is re-inventing the tech of the 50s and 60s, but at a fraction of the cost by using a completely different set of parts, supply chains and cost structures. And massive eventual volumes.
My guess is the Ukrainians will put a rocket on their interceptor drones, and develop some sort of radar or heat seeking guidance system. Perhaps we'll end up with an interesting hybrid interceptor missile that uses electric propulsion for part of the journey?
This is outdated, sensational misinformation. Ukraine has already tested a new type of unnamed high-speed interceptor (with a unique center crosshair icon) and has the video to prove it has taken down Geran-5. Jake Broe, Suchomimus, Artur Rehi, MAGYARBIRDS, and UNITED24 have good Ukraine updates.
What's difficult for Ukraine to stop is Geran-5 manufacturing that is expanding and going deep underground, and 1.6T RUB ($25B USD) will be invested in this sector this year. The rest of Russia's traditional military-industrial complex including feeder supply chain subcontractors in above-ground buildings are easy pickings. Recently, a FLIR sensor manufacturer used by multiple cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles was obliterated by 4 FP-1's. Ukraine is getting good OSINT and other intel on Russia's military contractors and going after them one-by-one to halt the ability of Russia to produce complete weapon systems or produce replacements/spare parts.
Its really depressing watching Ukraine get ragged by a larger nation while all its neighbors sit on the sidelines and watch. Deploy troops to Ukraine it wont trigger nuclear war.
Drone’s name is Geran-5. It is also made in Russia, not in Iran. Nor does Iran produce such a (or somehow similar) drone. Nor does Iran claim any rights to it.
Calling it Shahed is a very weird propaganda twist.
The original drone design was based on prop driven shaheed drones, which were both supplied directly by Iran as well as being manufactured (and further developed) in Russia.
Calling it a propaganda twist ignores how the thing came to be.
Ok, but Iran's Shahed drone design is not indigenous either, but based on a German drone design from the 1980s[1] which Germany never deployed because the Cold War ended soon after, but Iran found a use for such a design.
Everyone keeps iterating on someone else's previous work. That's how it works.
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drohne-Anti-Radar
First Geran drones are based on Shaheds but are not Shaheds. This is not how they are named.
The latest jet drones being discussed in this article have nothing in common with Shaheds at all.
Iran does manufacture a lot of drones, including similar looking ones.
Just repeating. This drone is named Geran-5. It is produced in Russia. Iran doesn’t produce such a jet drone at all.
Renaming another country’s weapon is a very weird propaganda move. Why would anyone do that?
I am not saying this drones is Iran made (it is most likely built by gang pressed teenagers in Alabuga like other Geran drones) just that Iran has a bunch of drone designs, including jet powered ones:
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2019/09/the-oryx-handbook-of-i...
Also would not be surprised if there was knowledge sharing either previously when their let them clone the main Shahed variant or even to this day.
Good question, why did Russia rename the Shahed-131 to Geran-1? Those are allegedly Iranian made, and Geran-2 is allegedly a slightly modified Shahed-136. Of course, as they keep modifying them they slowly become their own thing, but there's a clear tech ancestry.
Russia renamed it because it chose to. This is a general rule: if you produce something, you name it.
For example, the Storm Shadow missile in the UK is essentially the same as Scalp missile in France. Yet whoever produces chooses a name.
Renaming a Russian made drone is WEIRD. You can only name the weapons you make.
"Drone" is an overloaded term. I'm not sure what someone means when they say "drone" (an FPV drone? an MQ-9?) When someone mentions "Shahed" I immediately know what's being talked about. It disambiguates what's being discussed.
Many also describe the US-made LUCAS drone as a Shahed clone, which clear up what role this system fills.
What is the resemblance between Geran-5 (a jet drone, essentially a rocket) and Shahed/Lucas drones after all?
$100k a drone.
Ukraine needs Patriot or an equivalent air to ground capability, but those are extremely expensive.
It sounds like the prop-driven shaheds were being intercepted with prop-driven drones piloted manually? I suppose that shows the relevant technology for guidance has been kept secret enough that it's not instantly being cloned, or is more expensive than human operators.
Well, the propeller interceptors worked - it forced the Russians to upgrade their attack drones to use jet engines, making them more expensive. Still an issue if they get through but also a question if they can do a big swarm the same way the could with the lawnmower engine type.
Also I expect similar Ukrainian adaptation using some sort of jet propulsion or even rocket assistance to counter them. Not to mention getting a jet powered response in the Russian direction.
Guidance to hit a stationary target is easier than to hit a moving target. Especially considering the shaheds aren't particularly exact about what stationary target they hit.
In an economic battle, I continue wondering why Ukraine has interceptors which detonate instead of being armed with projectiles. High speed cameras and low latency bridgewire ignition, coupled with AI targeting should enable single shot targeting with high probability of success. Multiple reusable interceptors seems like a better solution than expendable. At the same build rate, the number of interceptors per incoming drone will grow over time, instead of maintaining equivalence.
I also wondered the same until I saw that Rheinmetall produced that type of defense system you describe (I think in 2024 or so). And I think that except for Rheinmetall, nobody gives them this type of weapon (seems other countries have something similar), but it's probably a handful of them deployed in maybe very few locations.
I don't think it's that simple to build it, otherwise they would have all done it.
Edit: it's called rheinmetall skyranger.
>it's called rheinmetall skyranger
The problem with that is that behind the Rheinmetall brand name it's actually made by Switzerland's former Oerlikon before the Rheinmetall acquisition, and Switzerland doesn't sell military gear to countries currently at war due to its neutrality status. So for Ukraine it might as well be vaporware as they aint getting it (officially).
Interesting, didn't know it was originally made in Switzerland.
However, I knew that Rheinmetall was going to/delivered the skyranger. [0]
[0]: https://en.defence-ua.com/news/rheinmetall_develops_automati...
I've wondered the same thing. After watching the footage of some of these drone intercepts I realized the camera view interceptors are very erratic. My guess is that shooting a drone down from another cheap interceptor drone is just too difficult to do reliably. I understand that the cost of the interceptors are preferable than the cost of letting them hit their targets, and I understand that they are still an order of magnitude cheaper than the long-range Geran drones they are shooting down.
Given that they show footage of men shooting down similar drones from airplanes, perhaps they can eventually build a larger more stable platform with a more reliable aim using projectiles.
More moving parts would mean a much more complex system which would heighten maintenance cost and likely lower successful interceptions per working system significantly.
I'm sure the Ukrainians can draw two curves and see where they intercept
I think the current interceptors are optimized for one way attack - just enough flight time to catch the target and detonate. Any extra systems (such as guns or recovery hardware) make the interceptor more expensive.
Also these kamikaze drones are not flying in huge flocks like WW2 bomber that tried to cover each other with machine guns - even if a gun armed interceptor shoots one down, it might not be able to intercept another during the raid.
Some bigger, L-39 sized jet drones on the other hand could be quite capable, possibly launching separate one-way interceptors on top of guns.
It just seems like everyone is re-inventing the tech of the 50s and 60s, but at a fraction of the cost by using a completely different set of parts, supply chains and cost structures. And massive eventual volumes.
My guess is the Ukrainians will put a rocket on their interceptor drones, and develop some sort of radar or heat seeking guidance system. Perhaps we'll end up with an interesting hybrid interceptor missile that uses electric propulsion for part of the journey?
This is outdated, sensational misinformation. Ukraine has already tested a new type of unnamed high-speed interceptor (with a unique center crosshair icon) and has the video to prove it has taken down Geran-5. Jake Broe, Suchomimus, Artur Rehi, MAGYARBIRDS, and UNITED24 have good Ukraine updates.
What's difficult for Ukraine to stop is Geran-5 manufacturing that is expanding and going deep underground, and 1.6T RUB ($25B USD) will be invested in this sector this year. The rest of Russia's traditional military-industrial complex including feeder supply chain subcontractors in above-ground buildings are easy pickings. Recently, a FLIR sensor manufacturer used by multiple cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles was obliterated by 4 FP-1's. Ukraine is getting good OSINT and other intel on Russia's military contractors and going after them one-by-one to halt the ability of Russia to produce complete weapon systems or produce replacements/spare parts.