I’ve been with FastMail for probably over 25 years.
The only downside is that search is not as effective as Gmail.
Other than that, they have everything I would want an email provider to provide. On the last renewal I checked the competition. ProtonMail is nice but they are expensive and the end to end encryption comes at the price of breaking basic email standards.
Will I keep using fastmail? If they keep their prices reasonable, I don’t see why I wouldn’t continue with them for another 25 years.
I’ve used Fastmail for about 20 years. The worst thing that happened was that because of an outage in 2006, I couldn’t log in to download my homework in time for my teacher to believe I wasn’t faking. The best thing was that I deleted all of my emails in the 2020s due to an IMAP mistake and a human got in contact with me and fixed it. I think that speaks for itself. Definitely not canceling that subscription anytime soon
Changing email providers sounds daunting, but it was relatively painless when I actually committed to it. I did a search over my password manager for my old email and just went through the list logging in and switching to the new email. Probably took a few hours at most.
For anything I missed, I set gmail to forward everything to my new host. Cleaned up the few things I missed, and am only left with spam. I still leave the forwarding rule there in case a personal contact or service I forgot pops up, but it has been years without any issue, and I never feel the need to log into gmail. Certain emails are not forwarded I think, despite the "forward all" rule... but nothing I've ever found to matter.
It's a process. I just set up a filter on Fastmail that showed me all mail that was delivered to my @gmail.com address within the last two weeks.
Then I went through that list every now and then, unsubscribing or changing email addresses as they came up. At the moment it's mostly just mail from sites I've used Google OAuth for some reason and can't be bothered to change (or just plain can't - one site actually uses email as a primary key and are completely 100% unable to change it.)
> Changing email providers sounds daunting, but it was relatively painless
If you have your own custom domain, changing providers is pretty easy, IMO. In fact, the portability factor is probably the best benefit of having your own domain.
I was on the application for the .name top level domain back in 2000 and then there was a reasonable excuse for that - we were in the first new batch of TLDs. We had to contact a lot of site owners to try to smooth the path. But given the number of new TLDs since, you'd think people would've learnt.
> That does indeed sound as daunting as I feared, unfortunately.
You don't have to do it all in one go. It isn't like you have to move everything all at once like you're moving to a new apartment.
I started moving away from gmail years ago. It took probably like 5-10 minutes to set up email under my own DNS control and to set a forwarding address on gmail that pointed to that email.
I didn't even bother to do an initial bulk move of things over to the new email, I just switched things over individually as needed in a sort of on-demand fashion. 30-60 seconds here and there moving over individual accounts one at a time and only when it became obvious that I was moving over something worth keeping up on.
Spread out like that it felt like almost no effort at all.
Having new email sent to my new inbox would actually be pretty easy for me even, since I've already been renting my own domain for ages now.
It's probably not even several hours of work for me, except that I do want to set that time aside in case something goes wrong and I need to revert things; I can't afford to not receive email anymore.
That, and I do want to transfer all my existing email history.
In my mind it has to be done this way because there's absolutely no way you'll recall everything that needs migrating in a short time. Even if you have a password manager as your email is likely older than it, but it's probably a great start if you have that.
Changing email providers was easy. But replacing gmail address in all my accounts with my own domain based address took me 2 years to complete. You only have to do it once though, and then you can change providers at will.
Every time google did something to piss me off I moved an account or two in anger. It felt good. It felt so good that when I searched my gmail and only found google-related hits in my password manager, I was slightly disappointed lol
I want to try another provider, but my family (partner, kids, grandparents) stores pictures in Google Photos, shares docs from google drive, etc. It is all the extra stuff I get with Google that feels daunting to me, I'd love to switch for email and calendar.
You can just have a gmail account you don't use, and in fact even if you have your own domain, if you're willing to pay for Google separately, you can have a Google Workspace account for your custom domain and your e-mail for that domain at Fastmail and just not point any MX records at Google. It works fine - it's what I do as an artifact of having used them for e-mail and moved but not having bothered to untangle my other stuff (yet; but it's been years).
The only thing that's a bit of a hassle is the calendar. It also mostly works, since you can add your Fastmail calendar to Google Calendar, but Google is slow to sync.
And you can move your email but leave an unused account in existence if something really really needs a G login. Not great, but doable and some time later you might find out it isn't needed after all.
> For anything I missed, I set gmail to forward everything to my new host
This is one of the big reasons I switched to GMail when it was new. Most free alternatives like Yahoo would lock forwarding behind a paywall. A very transparent attempt to keep users by force.
The daunting bit (if you're using gmail or something where you don't own the domain) is getting everyone to update their address books. I took the same approach that you did and it took years before the forwarded emails died down, even with responding to all of them with "please use my new address". I got there in the end, though.
Considering moving to Fastmail myself. I usually use mailbox.org but they've been having far too many outages recently (some declared on their status page, some not). Problem is I use numerous E-Mail aliases for different services and it seems intimidating to transfer them all.
Can anyone speak to whether Fastmail is more or less likely to be accepted on "strict" sites that require larger providers?
I degoogled myself from Gmail/Calendar ... five years ago now? Zero issues with Fastmail that might've affected my life in any way.
I can kinda-sorta remember a few outages, but they were night time in my TZ so I found out about them after the fact.
Also I _love_ how they're not doing the Proton route and trying to become an everything-service. They do mail, calendar and contact sync, that's about it. No VPNs or cloud storage or AI offerings.
Fastmail is the service I've paid for longer than any other, without any pauses, and with the most satisfaction of any subscription. Like the author says, email isn't exciting, it isn't a fun or interesting subscription, but it works perfectly for me and offers excellent value for what I pay. It's so gratifyingly functional and boring.
Same, been about 10 years now and it is the definition of 'It just works'.
I do like that they are up front with how the data is handled and what that can mean for privacy. They are just working within the system but being transparent with it.
Good move! I was there before, and the worst part was... I was using a @gmail.com address. Bad mistake on my part. So actually tracking what I used the address with, that was my real pain. Now everything is on my custom domain, so if I need to move on from my current provider, it will be painless. In the process I did manage to delete a whole bunch of accounts I didn't use anymore.
Incidentally, I also moved to fastmail, and it is just boringly fantastic. It works. It has features I actually need and enjoy (masked emails!) and I recommend it to anyone who asks.
I recently switched over 6 gmail accounts (both personal and business) from gmail to fastmail. I have been suddenly bombarded with a mountain of spam that the goog must have been catching. It doesn't seem like my constant flagging is doing anything. I ended up building a convoluted mess of filters that will probably cause me to misflag something important one day. :-/
Also, I really miss the auto categorization into primary, promotions, social and updates. This is a killer feature!
I'm happy to be rid of the goog's convoluted management console, but wondering why fastmail's spam filters aren't up to snuff...
Interestingly, I have found it the other way around for me. While my main inbox is at Fastmail, I also have a historical Gmail account. My Fastmail inbox gets a few spam messages week. My Gmail account on the other hand gets hundreds a month (if not weekly) that slip past the google filters.
This is mainly why I stopped forwarding emails from Gmail to Fastmail as >95% of the spam was sent via Gmail, and I suspect Fastmail doesn't try to filter those.
Anyway, a helpful tip for you is that the Fastmail spam filter is configurable. You may want to look at making it more aggressive. Go to Fastmail > Settings > Filters & Rules > Filters > Spam protection > Advanced settings. Here you can either just select the 'Aggressive' preset or even customise your own thresholds for flagging a message as spam. Here you can also check how many messages are have been learnt by the filters.
If you're forwarding emails from Gmail I'd also suggest turning that off or setting up a rule to dump the Gmail forwarded messages into a separate folder. I suspect you'll find most of the spam has been passed on by Gmail.
PSA - A crucial detail about Fastmail's spam filter that should really disclosed more clearly is that your filter is only trained on email you flag from within the web UI. Invoking your email client's "move to spam via IMAP" function does not train the filter.
I found "aggressive" was too much (which if you look at the custom option, sets the scoring to 4). I am running with scoring = 5 on the worst account and it misflags some emails - ironically it tends to misflag emails that are coming from domains where I get a lot of valid email from!
Re forwarding, there is a setting to address that in the same location:
"If forwarding email to Fastmail from another service, enter the SMTP host names (not IP addresses) of the forwarding servers. The Received headers of these hosts are parsed to find the true email source. Please contact support if you require assistance with this feature."
Thank you for this report - I tried leaving gmail 2 years ago and returned quickly exactly because of this. Sad to hear the situation remains unchanged.
Meanwhile, on my other account, I have hacked together a basic email classification with n8n and cheap LLM model, and it works awesomely and costs peanuts. I wonder why services who want to be google's competitors don't do this?
My big problem with leaving Google is I’ve clicked on far too many ‘login with google’ boxes. In retrospect this was a mistake as it now ties my own domain to google basically forever, but lots of sites don’t even have the option to undo it.
A lot of those sites will let you just reset password, send an email to the Google account's associated gmail, and then you're done. I suspect that it isn't thought through as an official feature in such cases, but it does often work.
Additionally, if you signed up with an email and password, you can often just sign in via SSO with a matching email address for convenience and still have the underlying password remain working. Again, possibly not an intentional feature (but rather something like using the email reported via SSO or via email verification as a primary key).
I switched away from Google and haven't had a single issue going from 'login with google' to a regular email/password FWIW. Every site has offered some kind of painless recovery.
This is a bit surprising to me because I switched emails some time ago, and most sites were painless, but there were a fairly long tail of sites that had no self-server mechanism to change email from one to another. A fair number of them required phoning in to read off my new email to a CSR rep. Another pile of them had no mechanism to change email at all, their only solution was to open a new account.
Same; I was a sucker for GitHub SSO as well. I have no idea how to unwind it all, but (like Google SSO) it certainly had its benefits while I was using it. I remember there was an “open” SSO provider - OpenID maybe - back in the 2000s when a federated identity made interacting with blogs and such much easier. It’s the same with GitHub today, with various 3rd parties who need access to your code. They don’t have a “give me an git+ssh url” and so you almost need GitHub.
You can change the MX records of the domain to point at Fastmail (or some other provider) without losing the ability to log into associated "Google Workspace" accounts.
I thought this would be a blocker too but you can both host your email somewhere else and continue to login with google. You still need to keep the google workspace account enabled and active, you just point the MX record elsewhere.
I was paying for Google Business for my family, and then decided to switch to iCloud, but left only my own account on Google, because of that reason.
Also, some services requires you to log in with a Business Google account, regular gmail accounts don't work (ie: Granola).
i’m not sure i’ll ever delete my google accounts, but my goal was to stop using them. if someday an email comes in, it’ll still get auto forwarded, and if i need to login, i’ll have access to it.
You hope you can ... I didn't login to a Google Account for a few months now and it suddenly wants a lot of personal details to do additional "verification" because I am "suspicious".
Did it also give you a tip to "log in to your usual Wifi network"? I have a feeling all large corps let their heuristics run wild with little to none supervison.
I don't even bother with forwarding mail from Gmail, it's just a black hole for marketing emails that I'd only occasionally glance at when I'm looking for a discount code.
A shout out to the fastmail management who acquired pobox.com and kept the domain going, leveraging the fastmail infra.
I was really pleased my decades long investment in @short.name paid off, and I have been able to keep a short @pobox.com instance, which I undoubtedly would lose in the migration into @fastmail.com
Aside from the vanity aspect, the distinction between a real mail provider and a stable forwarding service is a useful one. Thank you Bron (and others) for keeping things going.
I have a blog post that I've been meaning to write about why I moved from Fastmail to Gmail. I love Fastmail as a product, but I realised it wasn't what I wanted anymore from my email.
I think there's a tension between explicit and implicit organisation. If you want a really good email client, Fastmail is great, but while I did care about that at one point in my life, what I want now is really just the big box at the top of the email telling me about my package arriving today or showing my boarding pass. Fastmail is excellent for explicit organisation, but its implicit organisation isn't great. Gmail is the other way around. I don't like the Gmail UI or any of the organisation features, but I also don't really need to use them.
I think the next paradigm shift in software is going to be LLM-inferred user intent. Serving just what you really want, when you want it. Currently all inside whatever interface the LLM provider offers, but soon whatever interface the LLM decides is appropriate. People won't use apps anymore. Your LLM will tell you which emails you need to address, and will automatically triage the rest (and action those which can be actioned autonomously). You won't navigate to Facebook. You'll ask your LLMs what your friends are up to. You won't navigate to TikTok. You'll ask the LLM for some funny videos (or whatever you're in the mood for). We won't need to structure data hierarchically anymore. Just dump it somewhere, an LLM vectorises it, and it's super easy to retrieve later in whichever domain one needs it.
The internet is about to undergo radical transformation.
This is basically what my take has been after chasing everything else for way too long. Though I've not moved back and Gmail honestly isn't something I can now move back to (and no tracking/etc are not the reason). I just wrote a too long comment and I realise now most of that you've said in your short comment.
Email for me is just a communication tool that the world still uses. Nothing else.
I have been fairly happy with ProtonMail, except for a while back their Android app became unusable, often not sending mail! I started using web mail in a mobile browser, and whilst i have struggled with it for probably 3 years now it is annoying.
Tbf using it with outlook on my desktop is annoying too. The bridge often logs out on restart. I was thinking about Fastmail as an alternative
The real downside to subdomain addressing is that very few other providers support it. I think Migadu is the only one I could find. If you do end up needing to leave Fastmail, you might have to configure each and every subdomain as a unique email domain somewhere else. I would avoid it if you're starting fresh.
> Going and updating my accounts with a new address was easier than I was expecting
Is this really true? Out of the probably many hundreds of online accounts I use I can think of very few that actually let you change the underlying email (which in almost ever case is the username) without having to create a brand new account.
When I made the switch from @Gmail to my own email domains hosted by Fastmail, I never had any problem changing the email on my 100+ accounts with various services.
That was about five years ago, I imagine it might have been more difficult in the past, say 10+ years ago.
Most of the sites I have accounts on did let me change my email. Looking at my password manager, about 1/5 of those that use email for login don't use my current email.
I wouldn't say it is easier than expected though, logging in, changing your email, confirming the change, and then making sure the password manager was updated was a bit of work.
Can you cite an example of a big, well-known, etc service that enforces a 'you can't change your email address' rule? I haven't really seen this sort of thing in the wild to be honest. Maybe one or two over 20+ years? I think the norm is using a username or an internal identification number (such as an UUID). It is rare the email address is actually used as the primary key to identify an account.
> Can you cite an example of a big, well-known, etc service that enforces a 'you can't change your email address' rule?
Philips Hue.
I've run into others, but that one sticks out because it's the only account I still have using my old email, since creating a new account would also involve re-pairing all of my Hue products.
Oh yeah. I did this in 2021. I got the list out of 1Pass and just did them in small batches. I hit a few that wouldn’t let you change but nothing important.
I didn't keep exact numbers, but of the ~400 Hide My Email aliases I have, probably 85% of them allowed changing email in the online self-serve, 10% required contacting customer support, and maybe 5% needed a new account.
The majority of mine are changeable, but the process is typically convoluted. The two that I have run into so far that I can't change are OpenRouter and Ecobee.
Maybe I am misunderstanding but I don't think this is true. Indeed you pay for the inbox, but it's not the primary domain. You can reply from any of the email addresses you created (which doesn't cost extra) and it automatically sets the FROM to be the email it was received on
If you have Fastmail configured to send from that domain as well, it will automatically reply from the same address the email was sent to. You can pick which address to send from, of those you have set up.
I'm a happy user of Fastmail, but I would prefer a properly EU-hosted service. (Fastmail now have data storage in the EU, but much of their infrastructure is in the US and data still passes through there - something that they're open about, but I'd prefer not to happen). The last time I looked at mailbox.org the offer wasn't nearly as good as Fastmail in terms of storage, catch-all email addresses etc, but I took another look recently and it seems to be better. Does anyone here have first-hand experience of mailbox.org?
As Fastmail themselves have pointed out many times, e-mail is inherently a multi-party activity with both parties holding a copy of the e-mails. Aside from the microscopic amount of people GPGing their e-mail and sending it over good servers, your e-mail is as private as the other party treats it. Which isn't very much. And you can't do anything about that.
You want private and / or anonymous communications? Don't use e-mail.
Fair point, but my desire is for "good enough" rather than perfect. I know my emails go into other systems, it's more about feeling that my inbox is hosted by a company solely based in a jurisdiction where it can't be compelled to do anything by the US government. It's also a matter of principle - I want to move as much of my infrastructure as I can away from US-based services because I don't trust things not to get worse there.
The bigger issue isn't a privacy one, it's a security one. For many people, if you can get access to their email box, you can account-reset your way into any other account they own. So if an authoritarian state compromises your account (because they control the servers), there goes your everything
A lot of people seem to ignore this point when it comes to Proton’s E2EE of emails at rest. It wasn’t even a year ago when the US government subpoenaed a Pennsylvania man’s entire Gmail inbox because he wrote a letter to a DHS attorney. This wouldn’t happen with Proton. It would definitely happen with Fastmail.
> The investigators who questioned Jon told him Homeland Security couldn’t obtain his emails, documents, photos or other content with an administrative subpoena, he said, but the breadth of what federal investigators did ask for shook him.
> Among their demands, which they wanted dating back to Sept. 1: the day, time and duration of all his online sessions; every associated IP and physical address; a list of each service he used; any alternate usernames and email addresses; the date he opened his account; his credit card, driver’s license and Social Security numbers.
However, what information the US government can or can't get from tech companies seems like a moving target.
The webmail has io.ox in the URL so I assume it is hosted ox (www.ox.io of softwares) which is SIGNIFICANTLY worse performance and usability wise compared to the Fastmail webmail -- I don`t use SMTP/IMAP so I do not know what that is like. Routinely on restricted networks that only allow HTTP/HTTPS so it is a webmail only experience opinionated in mine.
I moved to using Fastmail as my primary over 7 years ago and I still use it as my main email address but I had hoped I could get rid of my gmail but instead it became a catch-all junk inbox similar to OP's gmail. The main issue is that so many websites use Login in with Google as a way to sign-in that I just had to keep my gmail logged in most of the time.
So instead of "moving away from Gmail to Fastmail" it's more like "using Gmail and Fastmail" for me.
I'm in the process of migrating away from my custom domain on Google (I'm grandfathered in from back when they offered it for free). So far getting all my old email, contacts, and calendar info FastMail has been seamless. All that's left is to repoint the DNS.
Like another comment, I too have a couple of services connected to "Sign in w/ Google". Until I actually delete my Google org, those will still remain active. Since I'm not paying, I feel OK about this.
I like Fastmail but I'm starting to feel that the subscription cost is a bit overpriced for the way I use it (just IMAP email - not using the app, calendars, contacts, file hosting, ...). I've researched and found some other independent paid email providers that are significantly cheaper, although I suspect most of having a low bus factor with just 1 or 2 people operating them.
It's likely that regular Fastmail users are subsidising their AI costs. I've talked to several people who were a bit shocked when Fastmail decided to complicate their offering with the current hyped trash.
i have been using posteo.de for the last decade with no problems at all. Exactly the feature set you use. I only recently started to use their Caldav stuff which works.
Same here. I don't want a custom domain for certain things, and Posteo (posteo.de) was good. Posteo increased the mailbox storage to 4 GB recently and the default number of free aliases too. I'm satisfied that it's run by a team and not by one person (the low bus factor mentioned above). At EUR 1 per month, it's way cheaper than Fastmail for multiple mailboxes across family members and provides a lot more value, IMO.
I got the same capabilities from mxroute.com, another worthwhile alternative - hosted in the USA. Plus they offer a no subscription, 10GB one time fee (I think $150 at the time I got it) account...unlimited domains/subdomains, etc -everything managed thru directadmin. Replaced my Google Workspace email w/this and never looked back. I still use Google for authentication and Google Drive.
The sustainability of this is dubious to me because you're taking a one time fee for service forever, and eventually someone (possibly a future owner) is going to want to get more money out of you over this. Also, there are recurring costs to host this that continue forever, even with no further income from you.
They heavily limit the number of lifetime subscriptions they sell to avoid it becoming a sustainability issue. That product isn't available right now, for example.
The issue with mxroute is that it's run by one person, AFAIK. Of course, you can always move with a custom domain, but I'd rather have a team of people involved to manage risks better. Migadu (which I'm not a customer of) provides almost the same, but with a team and for a subscription. The lowest tier as of this comment is $19 a year.
I have been very happy with mailbox.org. I recently signed up for early access to Thundermail, which is the new email service being rolled out by the Thunderbird team. I have no particular need to change except that I like the idea of supporting Thunderbird. So I will be keeping an eye on it.
If you use a custom domain and email clients rather than webmail, moving around becomes a lot easier. Another tip is to use a service like addy.io where you can create a new alias for every service, to help protect against spam.
Only thing missing is a Screener, which once you have it, you cant live without. No need for burner adresses, as nobod lands in your inbox unapproves. I added it to my TUI, nvim and markdown first email client, neomd.
I stopped reading their privacy policy at "Fastmail is an Australian company" - Australia is a five eyes jurisdiction. That said, I'm a happy customer of almost a decade with them, but my email correspondence is pretty boring and not politically sensitive.
Interesting. Should any email provider based in any of the 5 Eyes (or even 14) be avoided? But I feel, particularly for everyday folk, we have reached the point at which avoiding some level of surveillance is now virtually impossible.
I'm in the process of leaving Proton and moving to Fastmail. I'm now paying for Mullvad and Fastmail, but haven't had a chance to port over a bunch of Simplelogin aliases I have over to Fastmail yet (my fault for not using a custom domain for those, which I've now rectified with Fastmail).
Despite having Proton since 2018, I've really gotten fed up with their service quality — they seem to half-ass most of their services and it's a real pita to use their ecosystem. People have been complaining for ages and nothing changes, so I've decided to take my business elsewhere.
Hopefully I don't get flamed for my decision; that's another annoying aspect about Proton. There's a vocal portion of the userbase that are zealots and really take you to task when they feel you are criticizing Proton in any way.
I’ve liked their VPN so I’m considering my email there but people seem to have a really strong preference for fast mail so I’m curious why.
Are you leaving just because general annoyance or improved feature set or what? It’s a lot of work to migrate so I don’t want to be back here in 2 years swapping again.
I haven't used fastmail, but proton works well for me. It's mildly annoying to have to run a local IMAP proxy to use a proper email client for my mail, but it's not a dealbreaker. And with the US having had over a decade track record of violating everyone's digital privacy, I enjoy the fact that proton isn't a US company and is therefore less susceptible to that pressure.
I have proton email since they had the .ch domain and two passwords to open your inbox, never used it for anything serious. Fastmail works well because you should never think of emails as private or anonymous, the protocol itself wasn’t designed with that in mind, I won’t even mind to have my whole email publicly shared like a blog because I never used it for anything private.
I tried both and found Fastmail vastly easier to use.
The encryption part wasn’t that valuable for me and ofc Proton doesn’t encrypt the metadata and unless they’re proton too it’s not E2E so I’m happy sticking with Signal for that sorta stuff and leaving email for talking to businesses.
> Proton doesn’t encrypt the metadata and unless they’re proton too it’s not E2E
To be fair though your emails are E2EE at rest in your inbox, so in the event of seizure or a subpoena they can’t hand over anything usable aside from metadata unlike fastmail who will hand everything over.
I made the move some time ago. There are some unpolished parts here and there, but I'm glad I made the move.
Somewhat unrelated criticism of Gmail - during the migration, I found out that there is no way to search for starred archived emails in Gmail. They don't show up in Starred, nor in any search with is:starred. Their star status also doesn't carry over when migrating.
I did this for my business' email about a year ago. A few weeks ago, I moved everything. Fastmail is awesome, but perhaps more important is how bad Gmail's web interface is. Fastmail is way more responsive and fluid and feels almost native.
Fastmail is fantastic, I've been a very happy customer for at least a couple years now.
Masked emails have been so nice for throwaway/sketchy sites. It's done everything I could ask, would highly recommend for anyone looking to make the switch from elsewhere.
The last tine I tried to switch from Gmail it was a complete failure and the main reason was spam. I get --a lot of it-- and I've even had trolls sign me up for spam lists before. I think conceivably the biggest reason to use Gmail is now gone because LLMs could classify spam almost perfectly.
If I were to try switch again I'd look for a mail service that specifically mentioned using LLMs for spam. If they say they're using one of the "open source" spam prevention solutions I can almost guarantee you its not going to do shit. They aren't good enough to catch all the permutations of serious spammers (who probably test on those tools before sending anyway.)
Edit: it also occurs to me that you could simply download all your mail locally and pipe it through a local model. That could actually work really well, tbh. If you hosted that on a server you would have the advantages of online access with gmail-grade spam filtering at any standard host.
FYI Fastmail works really well with the iOS native Mail/Calendar app if you wanted to try that out. iOS is pretty much the only platform I don't use the Fastmail app on.
I moved to Fastmail from gmail a few years ago. I'm thrilled to not have Google searching my primary email address any longer. I still use gmail for SSO for a lot of things from my 'gmail.com' account.
You may already know this, but in case anyone else doesn't, you can create a Google account using a non-Google email address, so your SSO doesn't have to depend on a Gmail address if you don't want
Long time Fastmail customer here. They need to stop their recent trend of breaking their UI, especially in backwards-incompatible ways.
They recently recently removed app-based font size from the backend (but just for mobile), and released an updated Android app which only uses the system-level font scaling, which broke it for people who hadn't upgraded yet. Plus the app-based functionality was useful. Not sure why couldn't just add a new "Use system font-scaling"
Then there was the debacle of removing horizontal separators in the list view. After backlash, they added an option.
I made this exact move a month or so ago when google threw some money Musk’s way - and I gotta say, the transition was almost imperceptible. An hour, maybe, of configuring and testing, spaced out over a couple days, and boom, it’s like I was never on gmail.
I would move back to Fastmail if they offered it. Yes, I could muck about with MCP but give me AI light features, such as categorization and perhaps AI conditional rules.
Having started down this path of non-big-corp hosted email and my own personal domain (which is definitely not self-hosting, though I'd never want that inflicted upon me) almost a decade ago, I won't say it's been a rabbit hole. But there have been some learnings over the years — realisations, rather. The biggest: I went overboard with everything around moving my email away from Gmail. Almost like what I did with seedboxes over the years, until I realised I didn't need most of what a seedbox offers, and that I didn't need a seedbox in the first place.
Whenever this discussion comes up here, or say on Reddit, the focus immediately moves to privacy, anonymity, tracking. Those are valid points, no doubt. What takes a back seat, I suspect, are aspects like reliability and some sort of accountable customer support — and no, a smaller company doesn't need an army of support agents, just a few people and an intention to help and solve problems, delays being okay. Many utterly irresponsible hosted email providers get a pass just because they posture with an activist flag. The whole virtue signalling in this sub-industry muddles things.
Some are worse. Some deny you basic email access in the name of things like e2ee. Now e2ee is a fine idea, but enforcing it unilaterally — and yet not really enforcing it, because let's face it, you can't until you "move" your ecosystem, the way Signal has been "moving" it. Locked to the app, locked to the web app, yet your emails flow to other systems and addresses that aren't e2ee (as they should!). You just can't use IMAP, among other things. This has become such a toxic topic on certain forums that I start wondering if maybe I'm the one holding it wrong.
Another observation: bundling things that aren't email. This is another contentious topic. I wish there were more mainstream, custom-domain-hosted email providers that just did email, nothing else. I first started using disposable email designed to route to my domain via my mail host (a German one). It was as convoluted as it gets, and still is. Then came Apple's HME, with limitations I wouldn't wish on an enemy. Finally settled on SimpleLogin. Not the best, but what I like is that it gets out of the way — I can receive emails on those addresses and send from them easily. It's also a separate service, not hooked to my mail host, and I wouldn't want that now.
What would I do if I had to go back to when I was starting?
1. I wouldn't look for a "private" email provider — just get my own domain (which I did) and sign up with a better-priced, responsible, email-only provider (preferably something larger).
2. Never use the free email that comes with the mail host account.
3. Let go of privacy and tracking on email. It's almost painful to say, but I'm tired of that part.
And if Gmail hadn't done idiotic things like forcing "folders" on my account with no way to change or delete them (Important, and whatnot), I might have just stayed with them. At least my emails would have been delivered — unlike with my current host, which doesn't do "emailing" up to standard. For heaven's sake, just let my email through, and let senders get through to me as long as their ID is verified and they're not on any spam list.
Hell, I am thinking of moving a domain of mine to Zoho. A company I'd have never imagined thinking of in the same breath and it has not become "better" somehow. But here we go, a decade later. This is just a rant I guess. But I am really exhausted and yes switch mail providers even with your own domain is daunting! The apprehension of downtime, fear of losing emails, something breaking etc are just too much. But at least there's a possibility.
tl;dr: If I do it over and Gmail stayed what it was back then, I'd just go back to them, just with "my own domain." Not that Google got better; just shows how disillusioned I am with the personal-domain-hosting hype.
My own domain, nothing else. Not the rest of what I've done chasing for "this kind of" mail hosting.
Subdomain addressing really is a killer feature. Since developers are braindead and can't implement a valid email address parser to save their lives, 'foo+bar@mydomain.com', 'foo-bar@mydomain.com', and 'foo.bar@mydomain.com' often get rejected as "invalid email addresses". But 'foo@bar.mydomain.com' always works fine.
Fastmail's Gmail integration to injest mails and calendars works fantastically. I've only had the calendar integration fail once, and was easily able to reconnect it. And iirc, you can even send mail through Gmail from Fastmail, so you can use Fastmail as an interface for both systems.
Up until recently my biggest gripe was the lack of offline mail, but finally both the web app and mobile app have offline now. The UI is still a teeny bit clunky (the whole email view reloads itself, even in the mobile app, for no reason), but I barely notice it. It's very stable, fast, reliable, and simple. I even use the 'file storage' feature as a replacement for GDrive sharing the occasional file.
One thing you don't realize when you leave Gmail is just how much crap you've signed up to over the years. I haven't used my Gmail for several years now but it still gets mail. (I'm keeping the account active so nobody else takes it and uses it for a weird attack)
I’ve been with FastMail for probably over 25 years.
The only downside is that search is not as effective as Gmail.
Other than that, they have everything I would want an email provider to provide. On the last renewal I checked the competition. ProtonMail is nice but they are expensive and the end to end encryption comes at the price of breaking basic email standards.
Will I keep using fastmail? If they keep their prices reasonable, I don’t see why I wouldn’t continue with them for another 25 years.
I’ve used Fastmail for about 20 years. The worst thing that happened was that because of an outage in 2006, I couldn’t log in to download my homework in time for my teacher to believe I wasn’t faking. The best thing was that I deleted all of my emails in the 2020s due to an IMAP mistake and a human got in contact with me and fixed it. I think that speaks for itself. Definitely not canceling that subscription anytime soon
Changing email providers sounds daunting, but it was relatively painless when I actually committed to it. I did a search over my password manager for my old email and just went through the list logging in and switching to the new email. Probably took a few hours at most.
For anything I missed, I set gmail to forward everything to my new host. Cleaned up the few things I missed, and am only left with spam. I still leave the forwarding rule there in case a personal contact or service I forgot pops up, but it has been years without any issue, and I never feel the need to log into gmail. Certain emails are not forwarded I think, despite the "forward all" rule... but nothing I've ever found to matter.
It's a process. I just set up a filter on Fastmail that showed me all mail that was delivered to my @gmail.com address within the last two weeks.
Then I went through that list every now and then, unsubscribing or changing email addresses as they came up. At the moment it's mostly just mail from sites I've used Google OAuth for some reason and can't be bothered to change (or just plain can't - one site actually uses email as a primary key and are completely 100% unable to change it.)
> Changing email providers sounds daunting, but it was relatively painless
If you have your own custom domain, changing providers is pretty easy, IMO. In fact, the portability factor is probably the best benefit of having your own domain.
Some TLDs get rejected or autocorrected by broken validators. I've had foo.dev changed to foo.de.
I was on the application for the .name top level domain back in 2000 and then there was a reasonable excuse for that - we were in the first new batch of TLDs. We had to contact a lot of site owners to try to smooth the path. But given the number of new TLDs since, you'd think people would've learnt.
This drives me insane. Lazy input boxes that only accept email domains from the big names.
> Changing email providers sounds daunting, but it ... Probably took a few hours at most.
That does indeed sound as daunting as I feared, unfortunately.
> That does indeed sound as daunting as I feared, unfortunately.
You don't have to do it all in one go. It isn't like you have to move everything all at once like you're moving to a new apartment.
I started moving away from gmail years ago. It took probably like 5-10 minutes to set up email under my own DNS control and to set a forwarding address on gmail that pointed to that email.
I didn't even bother to do an initial bulk move of things over to the new email, I just switched things over individually as needed in a sort of on-demand fashion. 30-60 seconds here and there moving over individual accounts one at a time and only when it became obvious that I was moving over something worth keeping up on.
Spread out like that it felt like almost no effort at all.
Having new email sent to my new inbox would actually be pretty easy for me even, since I've already been renting my own domain for ages now.
It's probably not even several hours of work for me, except that I do want to set that time aside in case something goes wrong and I need to revert things; I can't afford to not receive email anymore.
That, and I do want to transfer all my existing email history.
In my mind it has to be done this way because there's absolutely no way you'll recall everything that needs migrating in a short time. Even if you have a password manager as your email is likely older than it, but it's probably a great start if you have that.
Changing email providers was easy. But replacing gmail address in all my accounts with my own domain based address took me 2 years to complete. You only have to do it once though, and then you can change providers at will.
Not to mention all the sites where the email address IS the account, and often don't have good procedures to change it.
This is the way!
Every time google did something to piss me off I moved an account or two in anger. It felt good. It felt so good that when I searched my gmail and only found google-related hits in my password manager, I was slightly disappointed lol
A few hours pf effort to liberate your email from Google. Well worth imo.
Well, at least the emails that I don't send at least one Gmail user...
(Don't get me wrong, I still want to do it, but it's still daunting.)
can always buy a domain with pop3 enabled mail like the old days. pretty cheap.
I want to try another provider, but my family (partner, kids, grandparents) stores pictures in Google Photos, shares docs from google drive, etc. It is all the extra stuff I get with Google that feels daunting to me, I'd love to switch for email and calendar.
You can just have a gmail account you don't use, and in fact even if you have your own domain, if you're willing to pay for Google separately, you can have a Google Workspace account for your custom domain and your e-mail for that domain at Fastmail and just not point any MX records at Google. It works fine - it's what I do as an artifact of having used them for e-mail and moved but not having bothered to untangle my other stuff (yet; but it's been years).
The only thing that's a bit of a hassle is the calendar. It also mostly works, since you can add your Fastmail calendar to Google Calendar, but Google is slow to sync.
I dont think you need a gmail account for that. just a google account without gmail would work.
And you can move your email but leave an unused account in existence if something really really needs a G login. Not great, but doable and some time later you might find out it isn't needed after all.
Have that problem here. I just mirror all that stuff offline. Someone has to do it.
I have no cloud document, email or photo storage at all. Just an IMAP box.
As an alternative to forwarding, you can also configure Fastmail to fetch mail from (and send via) Gmail like a mail client.
Did you migrate any old email?
> For anything I missed, I set gmail to forward everything to my new host
This is one of the big reasons I switched to GMail when it was new. Most free alternatives like Yahoo would lock forwarding behind a paywall. A very transparent attempt to keep users by force.
The daunting bit (if you're using gmail or something where you don't own the domain) is getting everyone to update their address books. I took the same approach that you did and it took years before the forwarded emails died down, even with responding to all of them with "please use my new address". I got there in the end, though.
I had an automated reply that pretended I didn't receive mails there anymore.
I would receive some messages twice for some time, as people resent their mails to the new address
Things sorted themselves out without much effort. But indeed, it took at least a year or two.
Considering moving to Fastmail myself. I usually use mailbox.org but they've been having far too many outages recently (some declared on their status page, some not). Problem is I use numerous E-Mail aliases for different services and it seems intimidating to transfer them all.
Can anyone speak to whether Fastmail is more or less likely to be accepted on "strict" sites that require larger providers?
Most providers from my understanding don't handle aliases well.
I have a catchall *@domain.tld and Fastmail when it receives an email on an alias, responds correctly with the proper alias.
Also when I compose, it let's me write in a custom alias for the From sender.
Other providers and email clients seem to want you to create an identity for each alias which is a huge burden.
I degoogled myself from Gmail/Calendar ... five years ago now? Zero issues with Fastmail that might've affected my life in any way.
I can kinda-sorta remember a few outages, but they were night time in my TZ so I found out about them after the fact.
Also I _love_ how they're not doing the Proton route and trying to become an everything-service. They do mail, calendar and contact sync, that's about it. No VPNs or cloud storage or AI offerings.
Fastmail is the service I've paid for longer than any other, without any pauses, and with the most satisfaction of any subscription. Like the author says, email isn't exciting, it isn't a fun or interesting subscription, but it works perfectly for me and offers excellent value for what I pay. It's so gratifyingly functional and boring.
Same, been about 10 years now and it is the definition of 'It just works'.
I do like that they are up front with how the data is handled and what that can mean for privacy. They are just working within the system but being transparent with it.
Private Email (a Namecheap product) makes me wish I didn't move that account off Gmail. I'll take a look at Fastmail.
Good move! I was there before, and the worst part was... I was using a @gmail.com address. Bad mistake on my part. So actually tracking what I used the address with, that was my real pain. Now everything is on my custom domain, so if I need to move on from my current provider, it will be painless. In the process I did manage to delete a whole bunch of accounts I didn't use anymore.
Incidentally, I also moved to fastmail, and it is just boringly fantastic. It works. It has features I actually need and enjoy (masked emails!) and I recommend it to anyone who asks.
>I was using a @gmail.com address. Bad mistake on my part. So actually tracking what I used the address with, that was my real pain.
This is thankfully mostly solved now by AI. I recently had a do a migration that I had been putting off for years and it was relatively painless.
> This is thankfully mostly solved now by AI.
How did you solve this with AI?
They said “mostly”. AI solves 90% and then you solve the other 90%.
Lol. On almost every post someone comes in to say that $problem was easily solved by AI. Usually out of the whole context of the thread.
Snake oil level comments.
I recently switched over 6 gmail accounts (both personal and business) from gmail to fastmail. I have been suddenly bombarded with a mountain of spam that the goog must have been catching. It doesn't seem like my constant flagging is doing anything. I ended up building a convoluted mess of filters that will probably cause me to misflag something important one day. :-/
Also, I really miss the auto categorization into primary, promotions, social and updates. This is a killer feature!
I'm happy to be rid of the goog's convoluted management console, but wondering why fastmail's spam filters aren't up to snuff...
Interestingly, I have found it the other way around for me. While my main inbox is at Fastmail, I also have a historical Gmail account. My Fastmail inbox gets a few spam messages week. My Gmail account on the other hand gets hundreds a month (if not weekly) that slip past the google filters.
This is mainly why I stopped forwarding emails from Gmail to Fastmail as >95% of the spam was sent via Gmail, and I suspect Fastmail doesn't try to filter those.
Anyway, a helpful tip for you is that the Fastmail spam filter is configurable. You may want to look at making it more aggressive. Go to Fastmail > Settings > Filters & Rules > Filters > Spam protection > Advanced settings. Here you can either just select the 'Aggressive' preset or even customise your own thresholds for flagging a message as spam. Here you can also check how many messages are have been learnt by the filters.
If you're forwarding emails from Gmail I'd also suggest turning that off or setting up a rule to dump the Gmail forwarded messages into a separate folder. I suspect you'll find most of the spam has been passed on by Gmail.
PSA - A crucial detail about Fastmail's spam filter that should really disclosed more clearly is that your filter is only trained on email you flag from within the web UI. Invoking your email client's "move to spam via IMAP" function does not train the filter.
I found "aggressive" was too much (which if you look at the custom option, sets the scoring to 4). I am running with scoring = 5 on the worst account and it misflags some emails - ironically it tends to misflag emails that are coming from domains where I get a lot of valid email from!
Re forwarding, there is a setting to address that in the same location:
Fastmail > Settings > Filters & Rules > Filters > Spam protection > Advanced settings
"If forwarding email to Fastmail from another service, enter the SMTP host names (not IP addresses) of the forwarding servers. The Received headers of these hosts are parsed to find the true email source. Please contact support if you require assistance with this feature."
Thank you for this report - I tried leaving gmail 2 years ago and returned quickly exactly because of this. Sad to hear the situation remains unchanged.
Meanwhile, on my other account, I have hacked together a basic email classification with n8n and cheap LLM model, and it works awesomely and costs peanuts. I wonder why services who want to be google's competitors don't do this?
Google just has an order of magnitude or three more data to work with.
It's exceedingly difficult to compete against "free".
I made a preliminary attempt as well and had the same experience. I hope to renew with a better success.
My big problem with leaving Google is I’ve clicked on far too many ‘login with google’ boxes. In retrospect this was a mistake as it now ties my own domain to google basically forever, but lots of sites don’t even have the option to undo it.
A lot of those sites will let you just reset password, send an email to the Google account's associated gmail, and then you're done. I suspect that it isn't thought through as an official feature in such cases, but it does often work.
Additionally, if you signed up with an email and password, you can often just sign in via SSO with a matching email address for convenience and still have the underlying password remain working. Again, possibly not an intentional feature (but rather something like using the email reported via SSO or via email verification as a primary key).
I switched away from Google and haven't had a single issue going from 'login with google' to a regular email/password FWIW. Every site has offered some kind of painless recovery.
This is a bit surprising to me because I switched emails some time ago, and most sites were painless, but there were a fairly long tail of sites that had no self-server mechanism to change email from one to another. A fair number of them required phoning in to read off my new email to a CSR rep. Another pile of them had no mechanism to change email at all, their only solution was to open a new account.
Same; I was a sucker for GitHub SSO as well. I have no idea how to unwind it all, but (like Google SSO) it certainly had its benefits while I was using it. I remember there was an “open” SSO provider - OpenID maybe - back in the 2000s when a federated identity made interacting with blogs and such much easier. It’s the same with GitHub today, with various 3rd parties who need access to your code. They don’t have a “give me an git+ssh url” and so you almost need GitHub.
You can change the MX records of the domain to point at Fastmail (or some other provider) without losing the ability to log into associated "Google Workspace" accounts.
I thought this would be a blocker too but you can both host your email somewhere else and continue to login with google. You still need to keep the google workspace account enabled and active, you just point the MX record elsewhere.
I was paying for Google Business for my family, and then decided to switch to iCloud, but left only my own account on Google, because of that reason. Also, some services requires you to log in with a Business Google account, regular gmail accounts don't work (ie: Granola).
i’m not sure i’ll ever delete my google accounts, but my goal was to stop using them. if someday an email comes in, it’ll still get auto forwarded, and if i need to login, i’ll have access to it.
> and if i need to login, i’ll have access to it.
You hope you can ... I didn't login to a Google Account for a few months now and it suddenly wants a lot of personal details to do additional "verification" because I am "suspicious".
Did it also give you a tip to "log in to your usual Wifi network"? I have a feeling all large corps let their heuristics run wild with little to none supervison.
I don't even bother with forwarding mail from Gmail, it's just a black hole for marketing emails that I'd only occasionally glance at when I'm looking for a discount code.
Hmmm, that is an interesting pickle. Some are probably fairly easy to swap over but it is so dependent on each service.
Alas, short term convenience can lead to long term troubles.
Make a new account then?
A shout out to the fastmail management who acquired pobox.com and kept the domain going, leveraging the fastmail infra.
I was really pleased my decades long investment in @short.name paid off, and I have been able to keep a short @pobox.com instance, which I undoubtedly would lose in the migration into @fastmail.com
Aside from the vanity aspect, the distinction between a real mail provider and a stable forwarding service is a useful one. Thank you Bron (and others) for keeping things going.
I have a blog post that I've been meaning to write about why I moved from Fastmail to Gmail. I love Fastmail as a product, but I realised it wasn't what I wanted anymore from my email.
I think there's a tension between explicit and implicit organisation. If you want a really good email client, Fastmail is great, but while I did care about that at one point in my life, what I want now is really just the big box at the top of the email telling me about my package arriving today or showing my boarding pass. Fastmail is excellent for explicit organisation, but its implicit organisation isn't great. Gmail is the other way around. I don't like the Gmail UI or any of the organisation features, but I also don't really need to use them.
I think the next paradigm shift in software is going to be LLM-inferred user intent. Serving just what you really want, when you want it. Currently all inside whatever interface the LLM provider offers, but soon whatever interface the LLM decides is appropriate. People won't use apps anymore. Your LLM will tell you which emails you need to address, and will automatically triage the rest (and action those which can be actioned autonomously). You won't navigate to Facebook. You'll ask your LLMs what your friends are up to. You won't navigate to TikTok. You'll ask the LLM for some funny videos (or whatever you're in the mood for). We won't need to structure data hierarchically anymore. Just dump it somewhere, an LLM vectorises it, and it's super easy to retrieve later in whichever domain one needs it.
The internet is about to undergo radical transformation.
This is basically what my take has been after chasing everything else for way too long. Though I've not moved back and Gmail honestly isn't something I can now move back to (and no tracking/etc are not the reason). I just wrote a too long comment and I realise now most of that you've said in your short comment.
Email for me is just a communication tool that the world still uses. Nothing else.
If you want to be tagged and tracked in that way then there is no better platform than Google services for sure.
but, you're going to pay either way (assuming you have a custom domain).
I have been fairly happy with ProtonMail, except for a while back their Android app became unusable, often not sending mail! I started using web mail in a mobile browser, and whilst i have struggled with it for probably 3 years now it is annoying.
Tbf using it with outlook on my desktop is annoying too. The bridge often logs out on restart. I was thinking about Fastmail as an alternative
The real downside to subdomain addressing is that very few other providers support it. I think Migadu is the only one I could find. If you do end up needing to leave Fastmail, you might have to configure each and every subdomain as a unique email domain somewhere else. I would avoid it if you're starting fresh.
> Going and updating my accounts with a new address was easier than I was expecting
Is this really true? Out of the probably many hundreds of online accounts I use I can think of very few that actually let you change the underlying email (which in almost ever case is the username) without having to create a brand new account.
When I made the switch from @Gmail to my own email domains hosted by Fastmail, I never had any problem changing the email on my 100+ accounts with various services.
That was about five years ago, I imagine it might have been more difficult in the past, say 10+ years ago.
Most of the sites I have accounts on did let me change my email. Looking at my password manager, about 1/5 of those that use email for login don't use my current email.
I wouldn't say it is easier than expected though, logging in, changing your email, confirming the change, and then making sure the password manager was updated was a bit of work.
Can you cite an example of a big, well-known, etc service that enforces a 'you can't change your email address' rule? I haven't really seen this sort of thing in the wild to be honest. Maybe one or two over 20+ years? I think the norm is using a username or an internal identification number (such as an UUID). It is rare the email address is actually used as the primary key to identify an account.
> Can you cite an example of a big, well-known, etc service that enforces a 'you can't change your email address' rule?
Philips Hue.
I've run into others, but that one sticks out because it's the only account I still have using my old email, since creating a new account would also involve re-pairing all of my Hue products.
https://www.coles.com.au/ (the 2nd largest supermarket chain in Australia) and https://makerworld.com/ are two I've come across.
McDonald's. I wish I was kidding. https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/faq/can-i-change-the-emai...
My hospital.
Yeah, and they insist on using it for MFA.
Actually the tech support did change what I use to sign in, but the patient record/profile is separate, and not user-serviceable.
I tried twice to change it, but they were able to send me on epic bureaucratic fools errands; I had to give up!
I was able to change it on every single service I use except for a well known Canadian pizza chain.
Oh yeah. I did this in 2021. I got the list out of 1Pass and just did them in small batches. I hit a few that wouldn’t let you change but nothing important.
I had all the important stuff done in a week.
I didn't keep exact numbers, but of the ~400 Hide My Email aliases I have, probably 85% of them allowed changing email in the online self-serve, 10% required contacting customer support, and maybe 5% needed a new account.
The majority of mine are changeable, but the process is typically convoluted. The two that I have run into so far that I can't change are OpenRouter and Ecobee.
Related:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48375016 Gmail thinks I'm stupid, so I left (moddedbear.com) 75 days ago, 828 comments
Shameless plug - I’ve made an app for Apple platforma, that gives easier access to masked mail (from menu bar on macOS)
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/secret-inbox/id6462335670
I generally am very satisfied with fastmail but I do have a hard time getting it to learn what is spam, maybe I'm missing something.
Fastmail is great because every time I get a new startup idea I can set up emails for each domain name I buy and it all goes to the same inbox.
If you reply to an email, does it use the “primary“ domain name or does it use the same domain it was sent to?
Primary domain name. You pay for the inbox, not the domain.
Maybe I am misunderstanding but I don't think this is true. Indeed you pay for the inbox, but it's not the primary domain. You can reply from any of the email addresses you created (which doesn't cost extra) and it automatically sets the FROM to be the email it was received on
If you have Fastmail configured to send from that domain as well, it will automatically reply from the same address the email was sent to. You can pick which address to send from, of those you have set up.
I'm a happy user of Fastmail, but I would prefer a properly EU-hosted service. (Fastmail now have data storage in the EU, but much of their infrastructure is in the US and data still passes through there - something that they're open about, but I'd prefer not to happen). The last time I looked at mailbox.org the offer wasn't nearly as good as Fastmail in terms of storage, catch-all email addresses etc, but I took another look recently and it seems to be better. Does anyone here have first-hand experience of mailbox.org?
As Fastmail themselves have pointed out many times, e-mail is inherently a multi-party activity with both parties holding a copy of the e-mails. Aside from the microscopic amount of people GPGing their e-mail and sending it over good servers, your e-mail is as private as the other party treats it. Which isn't very much. And you can't do anything about that.
You want private and / or anonymous communications? Don't use e-mail.
Fair point, but my desire is for "good enough" rather than perfect. I know my emails go into other systems, it's more about feeling that my inbox is hosted by a company solely based in a jurisdiction where it can't be compelled to do anything by the US government. It's also a matter of principle - I want to move as much of my infrastructure as I can away from US-based services because I don't trust things not to get worse there.
The bigger issue isn't a privacy one, it's a security one. For many people, if you can get access to their email box, you can account-reset your way into any other account they own. So if an authoritarian state compromises your account (because they control the servers), there goes your everything
A lot of people seem to ignore this point when it comes to Proton’s E2EE of emails at rest. It wasn’t even a year ago when the US government subpoenaed a Pennsylvania man’s entire Gmail inbox because he wrote a letter to a DHS attorney. This wouldn’t happen with Proton. It would definitely happen with Fastmail.
wow, hadn't heard about this until now. article: https://archive.is/J9Ant
correction that it says:
> The investigators who questioned Jon told him Homeland Security couldn’t obtain his emails, documents, photos or other content with an administrative subpoena, he said, but the breadth of what federal investigators did ask for shook him.
> Among their demands, which they wanted dating back to Sept. 1: the day, time and duration of all his online sessions; every associated IP and physical address; a list of each service he used; any alternate usernames and email addresses; the date he opened his account; his credit card, driver’s license and Social Security numbers.
However, what information the US government can or can't get from tech companies seems like a moving target.
One thing to consider - they even got the swiss banks to roll over and cough up data on their numbered accounts. This was a decade+ ago.
So good luck.
I use mailboxorg its acceptable.
The webmail has io.ox in the URL so I assume it is hosted ox (www.ox.io of softwares) which is SIGNIFICANTLY worse performance and usability wise compared to the Fastmail webmail -- I don`t use SMTP/IMAP so I do not know what that is like. Routinely on restricted networks that only allow HTTP/HTTPS so it is a webmail only experience opinionated in mine.
Thanks.
They're also headquartered in Australia, which is very friendly, privacy wise, with the US isn't it?
If you're not in one of those places and you want to move from gmail you might as well pick a safer jurisdiction.
I moved to using Fastmail as my primary over 7 years ago and I still use it as my main email address but I had hoped I could get rid of my gmail but instead it became a catch-all junk inbox similar to OP's gmail. The main issue is that so many websites use Login in with Google as a way to sign-in that I just had to keep my gmail logged in most of the time.
So instead of "moving away from Gmail to Fastmail" it's more like "using Gmail and Fastmail" for me.
I'm in the process of migrating away from my custom domain on Google (I'm grandfathered in from back when they offered it for free). So far getting all my old email, contacts, and calendar info FastMail has been seamless. All that's left is to repoint the DNS.
Like another comment, I too have a couple of services connected to "Sign in w/ Google". Until I actually delete my Google org, those will still remain active. Since I'm not paying, I feel OK about this.
keep going – i was in your shoes 24mo ago.
I'm using Fastmail for about 15 years and this is one of the services I'm extremely happy with. Definitely recommend!
Switched to FastMail two years ago. Mostly, it's a pretty boring service, which is exactly why I'm willing to pay for it!
I like Fastmail but I'm starting to feel that the subscription cost is a bit overpriced for the way I use it (just IMAP email - not using the app, calendars, contacts, file hosting, ...). I've researched and found some other independent paid email providers that are significantly cheaper, although I suspect most of having a low bus factor with just 1 or 2 people operating them.
It's likely that regular Fastmail users are subsidising their AI costs. I've talked to several people who were a bit shocked when Fastmail decided to complicate their offering with the current hyped trash.
Are you thinking of some other company? The most Fastmail has done in LLM directions is offering an MCP API: https://www.fastmail.com/blog/an-mcp-server-for-fastmail/.
i have been using posteo.de for the last decade with no problems at all. Exactly the feature set you use. I only recently started to use their Caldav stuff which works.
I recommend them.
Same here. I don't want a custom domain for certain things, and Posteo (posteo.de) was good. Posteo increased the mailbox storage to 4 GB recently and the default number of free aliases too. I'm satisfied that it's run by a team and not by one person (the low bus factor mentioned above). At EUR 1 per month, it's way cheaper than Fastmail for multiple mailboxes across family members and provides a lot more value, IMO.
Did this a half decade ago and hacent looked back.
I got the same capabilities from mxroute.com, another worthwhile alternative - hosted in the USA. Plus they offer a no subscription, 10GB one time fee (I think $150 at the time I got it) account...unlimited domains/subdomains, etc -everything managed thru directadmin. Replaced my Google Workspace email w/this and never looked back. I still use Google for authentication and Google Drive.
The sustainability of this is dubious to me because you're taking a one time fee for service forever, and eventually someone (possibly a future owner) is going to want to get more money out of you over this. Also, there are recurring costs to host this that continue forever, even with no further income from you.
Maybe they're betting on new people always signing up and paying, but not using it much. Still a risky endeavor.
They heavily limit the number of lifetime subscriptions they sell to avoid it becoming a sustainability issue. That product isn't available right now, for example.
The issue with mxroute is that it's run by one person, AFAIK. Of course, you can always move with a custom domain, but I'd rather have a team of people involved to manage risks better. Migadu (which I'm not a customer of) provides almost the same, but with a team and for a subscription. The lowest tier as of this comment is $19 a year.
Subdomain addressing for auto-sorting is clever. Beats writing filter rules one by one.
I have been very happy with mailbox.org. I recently signed up for early access to Thundermail, which is the new email service being rolled out by the Thunderbird team. I have no particular need to change except that I like the idea of supporting Thunderbird. So I will be keeping an eye on it.
If you use a custom domain and email clients rather than webmail, moving around becomes a lot easier. Another tip is to use a service like addy.io where you can create a new alias for every service, to help protect against spam.
Only thing missing is a Screener, which once you have it, you cant live without. No need for burner adresses, as nobod lands in your inbox unapproves. I added it to my TUI, nvim and markdown first email client, neomd.
FastMail has an admirable bug bounty.
Have its privacy claims ever been independently audited?
https://www.fastmail.com/bug-bounty/
I stopped reading their privacy policy at "Fastmail is an Australian company" - Australia is a five eyes jurisdiction. That said, I'm a happy customer of almost a decade with them, but my email correspondence is pretty boring and not politically sensitive.
Interesting. Should any email provider based in any of the 5 Eyes (or even 14) be avoided? But I feel, particularly for everyday folk, we have reached the point at which avoiding some level of surveillance is now virtually impossible.
Anyone have thoughts on proton vs fastmail?
I'm in the process of leaving Proton and moving to Fastmail. I'm now paying for Mullvad and Fastmail, but haven't had a chance to port over a bunch of Simplelogin aliases I have over to Fastmail yet (my fault for not using a custom domain for those, which I've now rectified with Fastmail).
Despite having Proton since 2018, I've really gotten fed up with their service quality — they seem to half-ass most of their services and it's a real pita to use their ecosystem. People have been complaining for ages and nothing changes, so I've decided to take my business elsewhere.
Hopefully I don't get flamed for my decision; that's another annoying aspect about Proton. There's a vocal portion of the userbase that are zealots and really take you to task when they feel you are criticizing Proton in any way.
I’ve liked their VPN so I’m considering my email there but people seem to have a really strong preference for fast mail so I’m curious why.
Are you leaving just because general annoyance or improved feature set or what? It’s a lot of work to migrate so I don’t want to be back here in 2 years swapping again.
Nowhere near the same - there's no JMAP or true IMAP on Proton.
Interesting thank you! I don’t know much about JMAP but sounds trick.
Running a relatively-small opt-in email list, I've had problems with deliverability to Proton.
Do you know if it’s @proton domains specifically? Eg are custom domains similarly affected?
I only received complaints from people with @proton addresses. Very few people use non-free email addresses.
I haven't used fastmail, but proton works well for me. It's mildly annoying to have to run a local IMAP proxy to use a proper email client for my mail, but it's not a dealbreaker. And with the US having had over a decade track record of violating everyone's digital privacy, I enjoy the fact that proton isn't a US company and is therefore less susceptible to that pressure.
I have proton email since they had the .ch domain and two passwords to open your inbox, never used it for anything serious. Fastmail works well because you should never think of emails as private or anonymous, the protocol itself wasn’t designed with that in mind, I won’t even mind to have my whole email publicly shared like a blog because I never used it for anything private.
How come you use both instead of just migrating fully to fastmail?
I tried both and found Fastmail vastly easier to use.
The encryption part wasn’t that valuable for me and ofc Proton doesn’t encrypt the metadata and unless they’re proton too it’s not E2E so I’m happy sticking with Signal for that sorta stuff and leaving email for talking to businesses.
> Proton doesn’t encrypt the metadata and unless they’re proton too it’s not E2E
To be fair though your emails are E2EE at rest in your inbox, so in the event of seizure or a subpoena they can’t hand over anything usable aside from metadata unlike fastmail who will hand everything over.
UI/UX is definitely paramount for me, appreciate the note!
I made the move some time ago. There are some unpolished parts here and there, but I'm glad I made the move.
Somewhat unrelated criticism of Gmail - during the migration, I found out that there is no way to search for starred archived emails in Gmail. They don't show up in Starred, nor in any search with is:starred. Their star status also doesn't carry over when migrating.
One underrated thing is how easy it is to get credentials for sending emails. If you self host a lot of stuff it's quick to get going.
I did this for my business' email about a year ago. A few weeks ago, I moved everything. Fastmail is awesome, but perhaps more important is how bad Gmail's web interface is. Fastmail is way more responsive and fluid and feels almost native.
The pricing page is dishonest. It says prominently £4.50/month but that's for an annual subscription (£54 for 12 months is in smaller text below).
If you want a monthly price you have to tab across to get the true figure of £5.40.
The higher price wouldn't put me off - it's still very low - but the deception erodes trust from the very start.
Fastmail is fantastic, I've been a very happy customer for at least a couple years now.
Masked emails have been so nice for throwaway/sketchy sites. It's done everything I could ask, would highly recommend for anyone looking to make the switch from elsewhere.
I have used Fastmail for 5+ years, no real complaints other then some real emails get caught up in spam folder.
But can I still give all my emails to OpenAI??
(semi-serious question because I’m currently very opposed, but I’m afraid of my future decisions)
Sure, if you really want to, you connect whatever AI you like: https://www.fastmail.com/blog/an-mcp-server-for-fastmail/ – but there's no LLM built in to Fastmail itself; it's a personal choice.
a bit overpriced, overall
The last tine I tried to switch from Gmail it was a complete failure and the main reason was spam. I get --a lot of it-- and I've even had trolls sign me up for spam lists before. I think conceivably the biggest reason to use Gmail is now gone because LLMs could classify spam almost perfectly.
If I were to try switch again I'd look for a mail service that specifically mentioned using LLMs for spam. If they say they're using one of the "open source" spam prevention solutions I can almost guarantee you its not going to do shit. They aren't good enough to catch all the permutations of serious spammers (who probably test on those tools before sending anyway.)
Edit: it also occurs to me that you could simply download all your mail locally and pipe it through a local model. That could actually work really well, tbh. If you hosted that on a server you would have the advantages of online access with gmail-grade spam filtering at any standard host.
Anyone here know why the animations in the Fastmail iOS app don't run in 60FPS?
I wish they would improve their iOS app. It does leave a bit to be desired.
FYI Fastmail works really well with the iOS native Mail/Calendar app if you wanted to try that out. iOS is pretty much the only platform I don't use the Fastmail app on.
I know that this is at least somewhat on their radar. Scrolling used to not be 60 FPS either, now it is.
Is it still a Webview?
Some of it feels like so.
I moved to Fastmail from gmail a few years ago. I'm thrilled to not have Google searching my primary email address any longer. I still use gmail for SSO for a lot of things from my 'gmail.com' account.
You may already know this, but in case anyone else doesn't, you can create a Google account using a non-Google email address, so your SSO doesn't have to depend on a Gmail address if you don't want
Long time Fastmail customer here. They need to stop their recent trend of breaking their UI, especially in backwards-incompatible ways.
They recently recently removed app-based font size from the backend (but just for mobile), and released an updated Android app which only uses the system-level font scaling, which broke it for people who hadn't upgraded yet. Plus the app-based functionality was useful. Not sure why couldn't just add a new "Use system font-scaling"
Then there was the debacle of removing horizontal separators in the list view. After backlash, they added an option.
I've used fastmail since 2014. No complaints!
I made this exact move a month or so ago when google threw some money Musk’s way - and I gotta say, the transition was almost imperceptible. An hour, maybe, of configuring and testing, spaced out over a couple days, and boom, it’s like I was never on gmail.
fastmail really needs inbox categorization on the level of gmail
I would move back to Fastmail if they offered it. Yes, I could muck about with MCP but give me AI light features, such as categorization and perhaps AI conditional rules.
Having started down this path of non-big-corp hosted email and my own personal domain (which is definitely not self-hosting, though I'd never want that inflicted upon me) almost a decade ago, I won't say it's been a rabbit hole. But there have been some learnings over the years — realisations, rather. The biggest: I went overboard with everything around moving my email away from Gmail. Almost like what I did with seedboxes over the years, until I realised I didn't need most of what a seedbox offers, and that I didn't need a seedbox in the first place.
Whenever this discussion comes up here, or say on Reddit, the focus immediately moves to privacy, anonymity, tracking. Those are valid points, no doubt. What takes a back seat, I suspect, are aspects like reliability and some sort of accountable customer support — and no, a smaller company doesn't need an army of support agents, just a few people and an intention to help and solve problems, delays being okay. Many utterly irresponsible hosted email providers get a pass just because they posture with an activist flag. The whole virtue signalling in this sub-industry muddles things.
Some are worse. Some deny you basic email access in the name of things like e2ee. Now e2ee is a fine idea, but enforcing it unilaterally — and yet not really enforcing it, because let's face it, you can't until you "move" your ecosystem, the way Signal has been "moving" it. Locked to the app, locked to the web app, yet your emails flow to other systems and addresses that aren't e2ee (as they should!). You just can't use IMAP, among other things. This has become such a toxic topic on certain forums that I start wondering if maybe I'm the one holding it wrong.
Another observation: bundling things that aren't email. This is another contentious topic. I wish there were more mainstream, custom-domain-hosted email providers that just did email, nothing else. I first started using disposable email designed to route to my domain via my mail host (a German one). It was as convoluted as it gets, and still is. Then came Apple's HME, with limitations I wouldn't wish on an enemy. Finally settled on SimpleLogin. Not the best, but what I like is that it gets out of the way — I can receive emails on those addresses and send from them easily. It's also a separate service, not hooked to my mail host, and I wouldn't want that now.
What would I do if I had to go back to when I was starting?
1. I wouldn't look for a "private" email provider — just get my own domain (which I did) and sign up with a better-priced, responsible, email-only provider (preferably something larger).
2. Never use the free email that comes with the mail host account.
3. Let go of privacy and tracking on email. It's almost painful to say, but I'm tired of that part.
And if Gmail hadn't done idiotic things like forcing "folders" on my account with no way to change or delete them (Important, and whatnot), I might have just stayed with them. At least my emails would have been delivered — unlike with my current host, which doesn't do "emailing" up to standard. For heaven's sake, just let my email through, and let senders get through to me as long as their ID is verified and they're not on any spam list.
Hell, I am thinking of moving a domain of mine to Zoho. A company I'd have never imagined thinking of in the same breath and it has not become "better" somehow. But here we go, a decade later. This is just a rant I guess. But I am really exhausted and yes switch mail providers even with your own domain is daunting! The apprehension of downtime, fear of losing emails, something breaking etc are just too much. But at least there's a possibility.
tl;dr: If I do it over and Gmail stayed what it was back then, I'd just go back to them, just with "my own domain." Not that Google got better; just shows how disillusioned I am with the personal-domain-hosting hype.
My own domain, nothing else. Not the rest of what I've done chasing for "this kind of" mail hosting.
Subdomain addressing really is a killer feature. Since developers are braindead and can't implement a valid email address parser to save their lives, 'foo+bar@mydomain.com', 'foo-bar@mydomain.com', and 'foo.bar@mydomain.com' often get rejected as "invalid email addresses". But 'foo@bar.mydomain.com' always works fine.
Fastmail's Gmail integration to injest mails and calendars works fantastically. I've only had the calendar integration fail once, and was easily able to reconnect it. And iirc, you can even send mail through Gmail from Fastmail, so you can use Fastmail as an interface for both systems.
Up until recently my biggest gripe was the lack of offline mail, but finally both the web app and mobile app have offline now. The UI is still a teeny bit clunky (the whole email view reloads itself, even in the mobile app, for no reason), but I barely notice it. It's very stable, fast, reliable, and simple. I even use the 'file storage' feature as a replacement for GDrive sharing the occasional file.
One thing you don't realize when you leave Gmail is just how much crap you've signed up to over the years. I haven't used my Gmail for several years now but it still gets mail. (I'm keeping the account active so nobody else takes it and uses it for a weird attack)