In absolute numbers the gap is considerably wider due to differences in salaries. And all that while cars and fuel are significantly cheaper in the US.
In the co-working space I rent there are around 50 parking spots and half as much bicycle stands. In the warm period between the solstices the latter is packed and I have trouble finding a stand.
I started cycling mostly because they removed the free gravel parking area not counted in the usual spots, but I've found I don't miss driving as much as I thought I would.
The majority (60-70%) of Europeans still commute by car. Distances might be shorter and their cars might use less fuel but on the whole its still more appealing option for most people (despite quite a few countries trying to actively change it by making it more expensive and leas convenient).
A big part of it is taxes, European countries tend to tax fuel pretty heavily.
If heating oil is still a thing where you are, compare its prices to diesel (especially historically). They’re nearly the same product, the difference is almost entirely fuel taxes.
In the UK, farm vehicles use a specially dyed Red Diesel, which is the same liquid with a chemical added to it to turn it red. It’s taxed at a much lower rate, so you’ll sometimes pass petrol stations selling two Diesel from two different pumps, one of which is around half the price of the other.
If you’re caught running red diesel on a normal carriageway, the penalty can be steep.
In Germany that red stuff is applied to all diesel, not only agricultural use.
And it's not the same liquid. From first principles maybe, but not after it has gone through the supply chain until it reaches you.
Anecdotical evidence from decades ago, when I had an oil-fired oven for heating.
With a big barrel in the cellar, which you let fill by hose from a truck maybe once a year.
And hand pumped into a can every few days, and carried that up, to fill the tank of the oven. One year I was rather broke, and that barrel empty. And then came winter.
Thought I'd be smart, because it's just the 'same stuff', right?
Walked to the Aral maybe 200 meters away, filled a canister.
That 'same stuff' made the fire drum clog from the inside with the finest carbon, like those mushrooms which grow like disks from the side of trees.
That never happened with just oil. And that was normal Aral diesel, nothing special.
One can also notice a difference in smell with older cars. Just oil stinks more.
We used to have red diesel for agricultural use which was tax exempt. So they added a coloring agent which would make your tank red and thus noticeable if you used it in a regular car.
Not so much the efficiency of the engine but the weight and size of the vehicle. Almost all new cars in the US are turbo charged 4 cylinders if not hybrids or pure electric, but US consumers do prefer larger vehicles which are less aerodynamically efficient wnd heavier, which is really a direct result of the distance and reliance on the vehicle Americans have.
Not too sure about the engines as of late. Bigger and heavier vehicles - yes, but still mostly rural/highway, and at way lower speeds than the EU. Overall, IMO it's just the distances involved.
The example you gave is the Ford F150 Raptor which is an enthusiast model for off roading that is extra inefficient and I wouldn’t call the Jeep Wrangler a “big SUV” but it is an incredibly fuel inefficient one with terrible aerodynamics.
That is surprisingly bad. My substantially larger Ram 3500 dually gets 15mpg even when loaded with 4000lb of cargo in the bed. Towing a trailer I get about 14mpg, unless there is a substantial headwind (since the trailer is much taller than the truck), that is the only scenario where it drops to near 12mpg.
3 miles is less than 5km. Perfectly fine by bicycle. Oh wait.. I guess you have too much freedom and no infrastructure other than highways so you gotta drive and burn all the fuel, time and money.
I live in the EU: I pay at least half my income in taxes, have less freedom due to insane bureaucracy, and the infrastructure around me isn't great (highways or pedestrian/bicycle). On top of that, fuel is double what it is in the US.
Whatever shortcomings there are in US society, it's not perfect in the EU either. That US freedom and infrastructure looks OK to me.
If gas was free for EU, we'd still pay more than US for it, by the sheer amount of taxes. 25-30% of current price is gas cost itself, raw cost, the rest is taxes.
So if EU somehow magically got the same amount of gas for 100% free, we'd at most pay some 25% less than we do now, and it would still be more expensive than US.
For context, the US is the top oil producer in the world. I also don’t know what you’re trying to say, none of the money you spend on gas goes to politicians
Its an international market, so that doesn't mean much. US producers can sell their product where they want. Its mainly taxes making it more expensive.
But that's tax. Which makes my point.
If we ever had (almost) free electricity breakthrough we'd still pay relatively the same for it. Energy is one of the most important aspects and they'll never just give it away for free, regardless of how much it costs them. Why would they? They know we need it and they know how much we're willing to pay for it.
True although a big component of the energy prices in Europe are due to policy driven taxation. There is a huge difference in intra EU petrol prices from around 6$/gal to 10$/gal.
There's a Jevons Paradox type thing where they ended up spending roughly the same to travel a mile due to Japan or the EU pushing for efficiency due to needing to import the fuel (might be visible in California too due to them fighting their geography that causes smog).
Possibly the EU is pulling ahead on price per mile now with the shift to EVs.
Wait until you hear about German electricity prices...
(household elec is about 30-35c/kWh, public charging stations for electric cars often charge 60-70c/kWh, no joke, although I think some vendors now offer 40c charging with a subscription)
Those household prices should still put a German EV substantially ahead of the average new US vehicle in fuel cost per mile.
If they did all their charging at 70 they'd probably lose on cost to a US car (or a German diesel) but be equal to a German petrol car.
I think Germany has a cultural thing with smart meters which are mandatory for the ultra cheap charging available in many EU countries but it appears that you can get still those rates in Germany and pay about half what you quote, expanding the gap with the average US cost per mile.
You're comparing EV charging prices to US fuel prices though, that's not a fair comparison. I live in the US and have an electric car, which I charge at home on my municipal's grid. The rate is a whopping 10.5¢ per kw/h.
That’s what I pay in Connecticut for electricity. I believe most of New England and California are in the price range.
I’ve got a Prius Prime and only at around $4+ a gallon does it start to become cheaper to charge than just use gas since the gas engine is so efficient.
Yes, taxes. This is more a philosophical thing, high taxes, high cohesion society, low taxes, everyone on their own. Germany especially after WW2 made the decision for a high cohesion, compromise society (which looks to be at it's end - not society, but high cohesion and solidarity, many want lower taxes).
Well the US could just pump their wells and outproduce the entire rest of the world in crude oil and refined products like gasoline if it wanted to. Or if it was forced to.
There are many variables to prices, like larger cities, longer commutes (US drivers drive 2x km per year compared to Germany), bigger cars with worse gas mileage - so higher taxes on gas with higher gas prices (like in Germany) would probably kill the US economy.
I have no idea, and what do you mean by 'typical US car'? Like a US car model or just the fact Americans drive more?
A lot of Europeans do drive as much as Americans do, like me and truckers etc. Having 2,34 a liter here in NL makes that a pain in the arse.
Also: using more fuel on average doesn't invalidate that American fuel, compared to Europe, is dirt cheap.
Edit: also wanna add there are many 'American' cars on the road here, like Ford F-150s etc. They are imported, but have the same fuel consumption as the US variant, as being the same as the US variant.
I'd say the Netherlands is the exception here, almost all such cars that I see on the roads (mostly in France) are from the Netherlands, along with some from Belgium.
They are also mostly driven by maniacs apparently.
My wife drives a VW that's built locally in Tennessee. The engine is from Mexico, the transmission used be from Japan. I think it's a Korean unit now produced on a license.
Optimistically, it drinks about 11L per 100KM. Stop and go will severely increase consumption.
It's a large car to you, but it's kind of midsize here.
How is it much more expensive in europe? cos in india where we import most of our ONG and its one of the more expensive things on a household bill, it is right now 102INR/L = 0.93 EUR/L.
People will just buy diesel cars then. That happened in Europe, people bought diesel cars because it was cheaper, because of taxes. Not great for the environment.
Make $200 per gallon of diesel? This has the potential to collapse entire economies. Shipping will be more expensive, which will in turn make everything more expensive. Food will be more expensive too, tractors use diesel. Few things don't depend on diesel at some point or another.
Tax only the fuel used by cars? Many people still need their car to work, not every job can be remote, at $200 a gallon, you may as well quit, unless you get paid the difference, which again will increase the price of things.
Maybe a few decades from now, if could be $200 a gallon without breaking everything, but certainly not now.
No, I think the technology fundamentally is not there and a decade away even with stronger financial incentives (of which there are already plenty). Between range, charge times, and worst of all: weight. A huge percentage of loads are operating at the limit of what is legally allowed on highways and it's strictly enforced. If you increase the baseline weight of the vehicle substantially, as you must with current battery energy densities, you decrease what can be carried by a single truck proportionally.
What will actually happen is literally everything will get more expensive.
Sometimes countries can formulate energy policies that accomplish two goals at once.
They can keep taxes on refined petroleum products low in order to not destroy the present economy, while simultaneously fostering a budding renewable energy industry. USA is the second largest producer of renewable energy in the world behind only China. California + Texas by themselves rank 6th in the world.
Good thing we have a subsidy to encourage people to buy EVs.
Ohh wait…
I suspect the price will be directly subsidized to keep folks happy. Since we’re in wacky world this subsidy will be inconsistent depending on where you are.
Blue States will be left with gas going to 6$ or more and Red States will probably have prices subsidized down to 4$.
Crazy how cheap gasoline is in USA. $4 is still basically half as much as anywhere in Europe even when there isn't a war.
Driving isn't nearly as important in Europe though.
American households spend 16% of their income on transportation, while European 11% on average.
https://itdp.org/2024/01/24/high-cost-transportation-united-...
In absolute numbers the gap is considerably wider due to differences in salaries. And all that while cars and fuel are significantly cheaper in the US.
In the co-working space I rent there are around 50 parking spots and half as much bicycle stands. In the warm period between the solstices the latter is packed and I have trouble finding a stand.
I started cycling mostly because they removed the free gravel parking area not counted in the usual spots, but I've found I don't miss driving as much as I thought I would.
The majority (60-70%) of Europeans still commute by car. Distances might be shorter and their cars might use less fuel but on the whole its still more appealing option for most people (despite quite a few countries trying to actively change it by making it more expensive and leas convenient).
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...
A big part of it is taxes, European countries tend to tax fuel pretty heavily.
If heating oil is still a thing where you are, compare its prices to diesel (especially historically). They’re nearly the same product, the difference is almost entirely fuel taxes.
In the UK, farm vehicles use a specially dyed Red Diesel, which is the same liquid with a chemical added to it to turn it red. It’s taxed at a much lower rate, so you’ll sometimes pass petrol stations selling two Diesel from two different pumps, one of which is around half the price of the other.
If you’re caught running red diesel on a normal carriageway, the penalty can be steep.
In Germany that red stuff is applied to all diesel, not only agricultural use.
And it's not the same liquid. From first principles maybe, but not after it has gone through the supply chain until it reaches you.
Anecdotical evidence from decades ago, when I had an oil-fired oven for heating. With a big barrel in the cellar, which you let fill by hose from a truck maybe once a year.
And hand pumped into a can every few days, and carried that up, to fill the tank of the oven. One year I was rather broke, and that barrel empty. And then came winter.
Thought I'd be smart, because it's just the 'same stuff', right?
Walked to the Aral maybe 200 meters away, filled a canister.
That 'same stuff' made the fire drum clog from the inside with the finest carbon, like those mushrooms which grow like disks from the side of trees.
That never happened with just oil. And that was normal Aral diesel, nothing special.
One can also notice a difference in smell with older cars. Just oil stinks more.
Apparently cat litter gets the red out and nobody ever gets dipped anyway
What could possibly go wrong :)
Filter your diesel through cat litter in your garage and fill up your £60k mercedes.
Feels like extra work I would really enjoy doing and also the wonderful smell.
And I can probably re-use the cat litter for pesticides, so i don't need to worry about disposing of it.
But otherwise i would probably recommend against it.
We used to have red diesel for agricultural use which was tax exempt. So they added a coloring agent which would make your tank red and thus noticeable if you used it in a regular car.
Americans also drive A LOT more than Europeans on average, and generally (is my suspicion at least) with a lot bigger/less efficient engines
Not so much the efficiency of the engine but the weight and size of the vehicle. Almost all new cars in the US are turbo charged 4 cylinders if not hybrids or pure electric, but US consumers do prefer larger vehicles which are less aerodynamically efficient wnd heavier, which is really a direct result of the distance and reliance on the vehicle Americans have.
Not too sure about the engines as of late. Bigger and heavier vehicles - yes, but still mostly rural/highway, and at way lower speeds than the EU. Overall, IMO it's just the distances involved.
Lot's of European cars have 3 cylinders instead of American V8.
The majority of American ICE vehicles are 4-cylinder, not 8.
There are almost no new vehicles in the US that still offer a V8. They exist, but make up a very small part of auto sales.
It's cheap but you also travel a lot in the US. Specially in the southern states because everything is so far.
Anecdotal reference, my children's school is roughly 3 miles, so I spend a gallon of gas every day with 2 round-trips.
That number was zero in Netherlands because all schools are either walkable or bike able.
Supermarkets and restaurants are 5 miles away easily.
Heck, my neighbor (door to door) is 0.4 miles.
> roughly 3 miles, so I spend a gallon of gas every day with 2 round-trips
You get 12mpg?
Two cold starts a day and a vehicle larger than a WW2 tank. Sounds believable.
> You get 12mpg?
It's the USA, so he's probably dropping the kids to school in a pickup truck...
Even big pickups get better mileage than 12mpg
Some do, some don't. As a concrete example, the F150 [1] pretty reliably doesn't. Big SUVs like the Jeep Wrangler can be pretty far down there too.
[1]: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/50104.shtml
The example you gave is the Ford F150 Raptor which is an enthusiast model for off roading that is extra inefficient and I wouldn’t call the Jeep Wrangler a “big SUV” but it is an incredibly fuel inefficient one with terrible aerodynamics.
That is surprisingly bad. My substantially larger Ram 3500 dually gets 15mpg even when loaded with 4000lb of cargo in the bed. Towing a trailer I get about 14mpg, unless there is a substantial headwind (since the trailer is much taller than the truck), that is the only scenario where it drops to near 12mpg.
Oh interesting, I had thought the F150 was one of the better ones but I obviously need to update my priors. Thanks for the link!
Depends on the model. The example given is the most inefficient model.
12gpm
In metric, 19.2km of driving burns 4.5 litres of petrol?
Is that right? That seems absurdly high even for a large ute.
He must take his kids to school on a 18-wheeler.
I believe semi-trucks are more like 7-9 mpg, but diesel and gasoline have different energy levels, so it's not an exact comparison.
US gallon is 3.8 litres. Even so, that's pretty inefficient.
Lots of EU people are now travelling longer distances due to housing prices and job relocations.
My last commute in Germany was 1.5 hr one way and some of my colleagues had 2.5 hr commutes. Hybrid hours though.
> Anecdotal reference, my children's school is roughly 3 miles, so I spend a gallon of gas every day with 2 round-trips.
12mpg! What do you drive?
3 miles is less than 5km. Perfectly fine by bicycle. Oh wait.. I guess you have too much freedom and no infrastructure other than highways so you gotta drive and burn all the fuel, time and money.
I live in the EU: I pay at least half my income in taxes, have less freedom due to insane bureaucracy, and the infrastructure around me isn't great (highways or pedestrian/bicycle). On top of that, fuel is double what it is in the US.
Whatever shortcomings there are in US society, it's not perfect in the EU either. That US freedom and infrastructure looks OK to me.
If gas was free for EU, we'd still pay more than US for it, by the sheer amount of taxes. 25-30% of current price is gas cost itself, raw cost, the rest is taxes.
So if EU somehow magically got the same amount of gas for 100% free, we'd at most pay some 25% less than we do now, and it would still be more expensive than US.
Only if you can afford it. And if you could, you could do that in Europe, too :-)
I rode my bike to school as a kid in the US. Kids still ride their bikes to school and to the parks/pool, I see them riding by my house every day.
This weird jingoism serves no one.
[dead]
The iPhone is priced exactly like that. And so are most consumer products. See Steam games, cars, Netflix, …
>The iPhone
Apple asks the same amount of money afaik, the difference in EU is the tax, so...politicians.
For context, the US is the top oil producer in the world. I also don’t know what you’re trying to say, none of the money you spend on gas goes to politicians
Depending on how much the oil lobby is donating these days that's not exactly true.
Its an international market, so that doesn't mean much. US producers can sell their product where they want. Its mainly taxes making it more expensive.
[dead]
I suggest you not lookup the difference in price between an iPhone in the EU vs the US, then...
But that's tax. Which makes my point. If we ever had (almost) free electricity breakthrough we'd still pay relatively the same for it. Energy is one of the most important aspects and they'll never just give it away for free, regardless of how much it costs them. Why would they? They know we need it and they know how much we're willing to pay for it.
True although a big component of the energy prices in Europe are due to policy driven taxation. There is a huge difference in intra EU petrol prices from around 6$/gal to 10$/gal.
There's a Jevons Paradox type thing where they ended up spending roughly the same to travel a mile due to Japan or the EU pushing for efficiency due to needing to import the fuel (might be visible in California too due to them fighting their geography that causes smog).
Possibly the EU is pulling ahead on price per mile now with the shift to EVs.
Wait until you hear about German electricity prices...
(household elec is about 30-35c/kWh, public charging stations for electric cars often charge 60-70c/kWh, no joke, although I think some vendors now offer 40c charging with a subscription)
Those household prices should still put a German EV substantially ahead of the average new US vehicle in fuel cost per mile.
If they did all their charging at 70 they'd probably lose on cost to a US car (or a German diesel) but be equal to a German petrol car.
I think Germany has a cultural thing with smart meters which are mandatory for the ultra cheap charging available in many EU countries but it appears that you can get still those rates in Germany and pay about half what you quote, expanding the gap with the average US cost per mile.
You're comparing EV charging prices to US fuel prices though, that's not a fair comparison. I live in the US and have an electric car, which I charge at home on my municipal's grid. The rate is a whopping 10.5¢ per kw/h.
That’s what I pay in Connecticut for electricity. I believe most of New England and California are in the price range.
I’ve got a Prius Prime and only at around $4+ a gallon does it start to become cheaper to charge than just use gas since the gas engine is so efficient.
Does Germany have anything similar to the cheap off-peak electricity tariffs we get in the UK? Generally 6-10c/kWh.
Wait until you hear about California electricity prices...
This is from a recent PG&E bill from my house:
Peak pricing: 0.48575 delivery + 0.14920 generation = $0.635 kWh
It seems to have gone down a bit this year though. These are the numbers from 2024:
Peak pricing: 0.53 + 0.183 = $0.71 kWh
It's not cheap when your budgeting depended on how much it cost before. Americans are mostly poor, however else we look to you across the ocean.
We don't have cool trains and double-deckers that you guys are accustomed to. Different can of worms, I know. Our own doing.
yep, that' like 0.92 EUR per liter and in Germany average price is around 2.3 EUR per liter
Yes, taxes. This is more a philosophical thing, high taxes, high cohesion society, low taxes, everyone on their own. Germany especially after WW2 made the decision for a high cohesion, compromise society (which looks to be at it's end - not society, but high cohesion and solidarity, many want lower taxes).
Lately it feels like in Germany people are paying high taxes, but still everyone is on their own.
Well the US could just pump their wells and outproduce the entire rest of the world in crude oil and refined products like gasoline if it wanted to. Or if it was forced to.
Isn’t that what it already does? At least in 2025 the numbers I see have the US as the top producer
And your point is what exactly?
That is 0.923 Euros a Liter according to Google.
That's dirt cheap.
There are many variables to prices, like larger cities, longer commutes (US drivers drive 2x km per year compared to Germany), bigger cars with worse gas mileage - so higher taxes on gas with higher gas prices (like in Germany) would probably kill the US economy.
I thought wait isn't it lower, but that's imperial gallon which is about 3/4l more per gallon. I always mess those up.
How many liters per 100 km does a typical US car consume?
I have no idea, and what do you mean by 'typical US car'? Like a US car model or just the fact Americans drive more?
A lot of Europeans do drive as much as Americans do, like me and truckers etc. Having 2,34 a liter here in NL makes that a pain in the arse.
Also: using more fuel on average doesn't invalidate that American fuel, compared to Europe, is dirt cheap.
Edit: also wanna add there are many 'American' cars on the road here, like Ford F-150s etc. They are imported, but have the same fuel consumption as the US variant, as being the same as the US variant.
> there are many 'American' cars on the road here
I'd say the Netherlands is the exception here, almost all such cars that I see on the roads (mostly in France) are from the Netherlands, along with some from Belgium.
They are also mostly driven by maniacs apparently.
My wife drives a VW that's built locally in Tennessee. The engine is from Mexico, the transmission used be from Japan. I think it's a Korean unit now produced on a license.
Optimistically, it drinks about 11L per 100KM. Stop and go will severely increase consumption.
It's a large car to you, but it's kind of midsize here.
How is it much more expensive in europe? cos in india where we import most of our ONG and its one of the more expensive things on a household bill, it is right now 102INR/L = 0.93 EUR/L.
A somewhat related discussion on this topic [1].
[1] - https://thehonestsorcerer.substack.com/p/the-oil-price-myste...
I wonder what happens to that gas price once the SPR can no longer be drawn from?
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=W...
They become volatile. The SPR is a short term buffer.
Where are they getting it? Four weeks ago, the president said that in four weeks the country would run out of oil. Russia already ran out of gasoline.
Much of the time, these estimates are just extrapolated. Someone out there must be producing more oil when there's a shortage.
Its China. They slashed oil imports massivly. They use their reserves (as a lot of other countries also do) to help asia.
> already ran out of gasoline
A bit of exaggeration there.
Why can't people buy gasoline in Russia?
Ukrainian drones took out the refineries.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Also will be interesting what happens when the SPR runs out.
Still cheaper than Cola
It should be $200 per gallon, we need to reduce depenency on petrol!
People will just buy diesel cars then. That happened in Europe, people bought diesel cars because it was cheaper, because of taxes. Not great for the environment.
Make $200 per gallon of diesel? This has the potential to collapse entire economies. Shipping will be more expensive, which will in turn make everything more expensive. Food will be more expensive too, tractors use diesel. Few things don't depend on diesel at some point or another.
Tax only the fuel used by cars? Many people still need their car to work, not every job can be remote, at $200 a gallon, you may as well quit, unless you get paid the difference, which again will increase the price of things.
Maybe a few decades from now, if could be $200 a gallon without breaking everything, but certainly not now.
We already have electric tractors trailers. It would end up being cheaper in the long run.
then you will pay $200 a day for groceries.
Maybe the future generations will need to pay otherwise.
Yeah but just think how fast those electric trucks would roll out. I can live on what's in my pantry for a few months.
I don't think electric trucks are actually ready for the realities of long haul trucking, especially in a country as expansive as the US.
They're not ready, that's the point. An incentive like $200 gas is what's missing.
No, I think the technology fundamentally is not there and a decade away even with stronger financial incentives (of which there are already plenty). Between range, charge times, and worst of all: weight. A huge percentage of loads are operating at the limit of what is legally allowed on highways and it's strictly enforced. If you increase the baseline weight of the vehicle substantially, as you must with current battery energy densities, you decrease what can be carried by a single truck proportionally.
What will actually happen is literally everything will get more expensive.
China is already rolling these out, so we know it can happen here if it aligns with incentives.
Sometimes countries can formulate energy policies that accomplish two goals at once.
They can keep taxes on refined petroleum products low in order to not destroy the present economy, while simultaneously fostering a budding renewable energy industry. USA is the second largest producer of renewable energy in the world behind only China. California + Texas by themselves rank 6th in the world.
Good thing we have a subsidy to encourage people to buy EVs.
Ohh wait…
I suspect the price will be directly subsidized to keep folks happy. Since we’re in wacky world this subsidy will be inconsistent depending on where you are.
Blue States will be left with gas going to 6$ or more and Red States will probably have prices subsidized down to 4$.
That has already happened. Lower state gas taxes and friendly to refineries on their land = cheaper gas. Oil is already heavily, heavily subsidized: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/republican-spending-bill-fossil...
That one alone is over $100 per person per year, so we all paid extra, even those who don't drive.
Even with all that we're still at $4/gal.
Here’s a more direct example.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/07/08/trum...
Looks like the gas stations are selling at cost or taking a small loss.
As long as memory prices stay low.
Oh wait.
The price increases will continue until morale improves.