I've given up on LG and Samsung appliances.
This includes TVs, all electronics too.
They are simply the worst products to live with. They break frequently, hard to find parts for, even harder to fix if you even manage to find the part. They're designed by AI or something, I've never encountered such hostile engineering.
They are never intended to be fixed, hidden fasteners, one time use tabs made from some of the lowest quality plastic.
Oddly enough, the cheapest GE appliances are made to be fixed seemingly. Parts are readily accessible, they're super easy to repair.
But it's the end of korean electronics and appliances, and this extends to cars too, Kia and Hyundai designs are near the bottom in terms of repairability.
I still don't get what makes korean brands _extra_ shitty. Like these dark patterns are all over the world but somehow korean brands crank it up to one more level.
I have no idea how it got so bad either. Even manufacturing must be a pain with such odd designs.
Their cars are just a pit to work on, non replaceable ball joints, have to buy the entire lower control arm, a $5 repair turns into $500. It's insane
i. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members and guests that their voices may be captured and processed, in compliance with applicable wiretapping, eavesdropping, and privacy laws. If anyone does not consent, you should disable the microphone or voice features in the settings. LGE disclaims any liability for your failure to obtain such consent or provide such notification.
> Have you read terms of service of Android devices?
Don't remember agreeing to any ToS before (or after) factory reset, put SIM card in a phone, and start using it. Granted, it's been a while since I last bought one.
And no, "by using you agree to ToS" is much like a shrink-wrap EULA for boxed software: doesn't fly in many jurisdictions. Explicit consent to do anything that violates users' expectations, is important here.
I had one of their washing machines. Purchased about 18 months ago. The dispenser drawer broke. I'm pretty sure it was bad out of the factory but it did last for this long, so I was happy to shell out for a new one.
Turns out they don't exist. LG have a website where you can search for the part. It's not in stock. They told me to fill out a form on a website they own, giving the part number. A third-party spare parts shop emailed me back saying they don't have the part in stock and that I should contact the manufacturer.
I found one that may or may not be the correct one and there's no way to know for sure before purchasing it. It costs almost £100 and takes 3 weeks to ship.
After days of this ordeal and laundry piling up, I decided to cut my losses and buy a Bosch. That one seems pretty great so far.
I have been very lucky with a washer/dryer pair from Samsung that have only needed two minor repairs in 12 years of near-daily use. A heating element for the dryer. A new door seal and, later, a pump for the washer.
My 7 year old LG inverter microwave has been flawless and is the best microwave I have ever used.
My 10 year old pair of LG 4K computer monitors have been great—they still hold a color calibration quite well.
My recently-purchased, and expensive, LG C5 OLED TV has a spectacular picture but is a finicky, ad-ware festooned nightmare. It demands attention to near-daily updates where the updates list contains ads and promotions that I have to scroll through and dismiss to find the actual updates. It is tiring to deal with and especially because the remote control is a ridiculously gimmicky “air remote” where I have to carefully aim it at tiny targets which, even from three feet away, is challenging to do and so unnecessary.
The TV and this story about unauthorized software installations has cured me of interest in new LG offerings.
I have an LG Ultrawide 38" monitor for which I haven't found an equivalent at any price point. I bought it during COVID and it's been fantastic ever since.
It's the only cable I connect to my laptop when I sit on my desk. It provides power, a webcam, wired ethernet and speakers (not the built-in ones which are actually not the worst but still bad).
I also have a CX OLED and I concur the image is best in class - though I wish it was a tad brighter. I have it connected to the Internet but I limit what it can connect to using Egress Eddie on my router, which means it can do Ad-Free YouTube and a couple other streaming services - as well as a selection of websites from the built-in browser.
I do have a few LG and one has internet access for NetFlix and crap. But I'm blocking almost every other connection for years because it's too abusive.
But this extends to Android devices, Windows, etc.
Almost every device that has internet, will do this. We have to thank the advertising ** people for this. But internet is broken almost from the start. They just got it impossible to use without protection to ads and spyware.
I concur about the picture quality of their OLEDs - it's incredible. But I can't say anything about their interface or software - I've not seen them for probably a year+ at this point. The Apple TV remote turns it off/on, and adjusts the volume. The LG has not been provided internet access.
Don't ever give a "device" network access. Unfortunately with stuff like amazon sidewalk -- even that's not sufficient, products can contain covert listening/watching devices and then share the information over a network you don't control.
A countermeasure to this is to maintain a radio quiet household, but it's only doable if you're out in the middle of nowhere and requires some substantial confessions as MANY devices have 2.4ghz radios in them.
Thank you for reminding me to disable Wi-Fi network in my LG tv. I was planning to do it recently but forgot. I really don't need those WebOS updates to the TV I use with decoder and Google TV dongle
As someone with an LG smart tv that watches Netflix etc, but who also has PiHole on the network, can anyone recommend any lists to block LG and LG advertiser traffic?
How much is some AI SaaS company or some AI training company paying for this type of data? It has to be a lot for them to risk doing something like this.
As enshittification continues to accelerate, terms of service/ privacy policies are going from comically draconian to completely insane attempts to preempt both consumer rights and common sense.
For now at least, we can still find the last few “dumb” models that simply function at appliances without all the bloatware, but that’s little solace.
In another ten years, I suspect we may be left with little option but to refurbish old (proprietary!) appliances as best we can.
Maybe this is wishful thinking, but there ought to be a market opening for simple, durable, easily repairable appliances? Where is the competition?
1,2,6,7 & 8 Seem to me as potentially (if not with certainty) in conflict with EU consumer laws & therefore not binding. Outside EU, YMMV. Key phrase here: "Local law may limit these clauses".
If such terms of use were to become subject of a legal case, then in EU "reasonable user expectation" weighs heavily, and courts tend to err on protect-consumer side.
For example vendor analyzing usage patterns to optimize users' experience with the appliance, would probably be okay.
But eg. do 24/7 voice recording & share with vendor's partners to let them send targeted advertising, would absolutely not match user expectations (given intended use of these appliance features), and therefore be illegal.
3-5 & 9 Seem sort-of-expected for internet connected, AI 'enhanced' appliances.
TLDR; it's just LG attempting to cover their legal ?ss. Wouldn't help them much in court.
This is US ToS probably? Under GDPR we have no punitive damages, no broad discovery, and the CJEU has kept non-material damage awards modest. So we can sue, but can’t win greatly thus cannot invest greatly in lawyers. Our supervisors are understaffed and to be honest (for the Dutch authority) fighting the wrong fights.
> 4. Voice capture can include other people. Voice-enabled products may record and analyse family members, children, guests, and bystanders. LG places responsibility on you to inform them and obtain any legally required consent. (Section 4.d)
Cool. Meaning you either inform every guest before they enter your home or they can sue you. Great LG! This is a good way to ensure to land on my personal forever-blacklist. I won't even come back to check whether you changed.
I've given up on LG and Samsung appliances. This includes TVs, all electronics too. They are simply the worst products to live with. They break frequently, hard to find parts for, even harder to fix if you even manage to find the part. They're designed by AI or something, I've never encountered such hostile engineering. They are never intended to be fixed, hidden fasteners, one time use tabs made from some of the lowest quality plastic. Oddly enough, the cheapest GE appliances are made to be fixed seemingly. Parts are readily accessible, they're super easy to repair.
But it's the end of korean electronics and appliances, and this extends to cars too, Kia and Hyundai designs are near the bottom in terms of repairability.
I still don't get what makes korean brands _extra_ shitty. Like these dark patterns are all over the world but somehow korean brands crank it up to one more level.
I have no idea how it got so bad either. Even manufacturing must be a pain with such odd designs. Their cars are just a pit to work on, non replaceable ball joints, have to buy the entire lower control arm, a $5 repair turns into $500. It's insane
>I have no idea how it got so bad either.
Most people just keep buying this crap and a tiny percentage of customers happen to worry about privacy.
I don't get why everybody bought that crap.
All the while the better alternatives got bankrupt.
So, most people should stop whining an live with the hell _they choose_.
Well in the TV space they have monopolies on oleds.
Quick fix, remove networking access for all devices, not just LG devices.
But since you did that remotely, you probably do that from a "smart" phone. That one is worst than this LG device.
Have you read terms of service of Android devices? Windows? Apple?
Microsoft like Gamers Nexus show on the video, writes down that this practices are malware and illegal and does exact the same thing.
Gamers Nexus amazing review of that LG https://youtu.be/Q9uefFYe6bM
My favourite part of LG T&Cs from that video:
i. CONSENT REQUIREMENT: You acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to obtain all necessary consents from any third parties whose voices may be captured by the Product and to notify household members and guests that their voices may be captured and processed, in compliance with applicable wiretapping, eavesdropping, and privacy laws. If anyone does not consent, you should disable the microphone or voice features in the settings. LGE disclaims any liability for your failure to obtain such consent or provide such notification.
That has to be everybody fav! It should be printed on t-shirts!
When he talks about friends coming over "listen guys my tv will record your voices and take pictures and videos... sign here..." OMFG!!!
> Have you read terms of service of Android devices?
Don't remember agreeing to any ToS before (or after) factory reset, put SIM card in a phone, and start using it. Granted, it's been a while since I last bought one.
And no, "by using you agree to ToS" is much like a shrink-wrap EULA for boxed software: doesn't fly in many jurisdictions. Explicit consent to do anything that violates users' expectations, is important here.
Their support is also absolutely awful.
I had one of their washing machines. Purchased about 18 months ago. The dispenser drawer broke. I'm pretty sure it was bad out of the factory but it did last for this long, so I was happy to shell out for a new one.
Turns out they don't exist. LG have a website where you can search for the part. It's not in stock. They told me to fill out a form on a website they own, giving the part number. A third-party spare parts shop emailed me back saying they don't have the part in stock and that I should contact the manufacturer.
I found one that may or may not be the correct one and there's no way to know for sure before purchasing it. It costs almost £100 and takes 3 weeks to ship.
After days of this ordeal and laundry piling up, I decided to cut my losses and buy a Bosch. That one seems pretty great so far.
I have been very lucky with a washer/dryer pair from Samsung that have only needed two minor repairs in 12 years of near-daily use. A heating element for the dryer. A new door seal and, later, a pump for the washer.
My 7 year old LG inverter microwave has been flawless and is the best microwave I have ever used.
My 10 year old pair of LG 4K computer monitors have been great—they still hold a color calibration quite well.
My recently-purchased, and expensive, LG C5 OLED TV has a spectacular picture but is a finicky, ad-ware festooned nightmare. It demands attention to near-daily updates where the updates list contains ads and promotions that I have to scroll through and dismiss to find the actual updates. It is tiring to deal with and especially because the remote control is a ridiculously gimmicky “air remote” where I have to carefully aim it at tiny targets which, even from three feet away, is challenging to do and so unnecessary.
The TV and this story about unauthorized software installations has cured me of interest in new LG offerings.
I have an LG Ultrawide 38" monitor for which I haven't found an equivalent at any price point. I bought it during COVID and it's been fantastic ever since.
It's the only cable I connect to my laptop when I sit on my desk. It provides power, a webcam, wired ethernet and speakers (not the built-in ones which are actually not the worst but still bad).
I also have a CX OLED and I concur the image is best in class - though I wish it was a tad brighter. I have it connected to the Internet but I limit what it can connect to using Egress Eddie on my router, which means it can do Ad-Free YouTube and a couple other streaming services - as well as a selection of websites from the built-in browser.
I do have a few LG and one has internet access for NetFlix and crap. But I'm blocking almost every other connection for years because it's too abusive.
But this extends to Android devices, Windows, etc.
Almost every device that has internet, will do this. We have to thank the advertising ** people for this. But internet is broken almost from the start. They just got it impossible to use without protection to ads and spyware.
I concur about the picture quality of their OLEDs - it's incredible. But I can't say anything about their interface or software - I've not seen them for probably a year+ at this point. The Apple TV remote turns it off/on, and adjusts the volume. The LG has not been provided internet access.
This is accurate of my experience with my LG washer and dishwasher. I won’t be getting LG appliances again.
Don't ever give a "device" network access. Unfortunately with stuff like amazon sidewalk -- even that's not sufficient, products can contain covert listening/watching devices and then share the information over a network you don't control.
A countermeasure to this is to maintain a radio quiet household, but it's only doable if you're out in the middle of nowhere and requires some substantial confessions as MANY devices have 2.4ghz radios in them.
Thank you for reminding me to disable Wi-Fi network in my LG tv. I was planning to do it recently but forgot. I really don't need those WebOS updates to the TV I use with decoder and Google TV dongle
Regular 1.5GB updates are nuts, especially when WebOS is so terrible.
As someone with an LG smart tv that watches Netflix etc, but who also has PiHole on the network, can anyone recommend any lists to block LG and LG advertiser traffic?
Disconnect it and buy any streaming device. An Apple TV is nice.
No-name android boxes are a concern, too - and they might not have the honesty to spell out their spying in the ToS
How much is some AI SaaS company or some AI training company paying for this type of data? It has to be a lot for them to risk doing something like this.
LG Appliances are garbage I would never buy one.
As enshittification continues to accelerate, terms of service/ privacy policies are going from comically draconian to completely insane attempts to preempt both consumer rights and common sense.
For now at least, we can still find the last few “dumb” models that simply function at appliances without all the bloatware, but that’s little solace. In another ten years, I suspect we may be left with little option but to refurbish old (proprietary!) appliances as best we can.
Maybe this is wishful thinking, but there ought to be a market opening for simple, durable, easily repairable appliances? Where is the competition?
1,2,6,7 & 8 Seem to me as potentially (if not with certainty) in conflict with EU consumer laws & therefore not binding. Outside EU, YMMV. Key phrase here: "Local law may limit these clauses".
If such terms of use were to become subject of a legal case, then in EU "reasonable user expectation" weighs heavily, and courts tend to err on protect-consumer side.
For example vendor analyzing usage patterns to optimize users' experience with the appliance, would probably be okay.
But eg. do 24/7 voice recording & share with vendor's partners to let them send targeted advertising, would absolutely not match user expectations (given intended use of these appliance features), and therefore be illegal.
3-5 & 9 Seem sort-of-expected for internet connected, AI 'enhanced' appliances.
TLDR; it's just LG attempting to cover their legal ?ss. Wouldn't help them much in court.
Someone should sue their friend for inviting them over and not giving them a GDPR notice. This will finally make LG far too radioactive to buy.
This is US ToS probably? Under GDPR we have no punitive damages, no broad discovery, and the CJEU has kept non-material damage awards modest. So we can sue, but can’t win greatly thus cannot invest greatly in lawyers. Our supervisors are understaffed and to be honest (for the Dutch authority) fighting the wrong fights.
GDPR? Oh the Great Data Robbing Directive.
Also known as the Gross Data Privacy Regime enabler.
Funny part is that some people think that is a good thing and it works.
> 4. Voice capture can include other people. Voice-enabled products may record and analyse family members, children, guests, and bystanders. LG places responsibility on you to inform them and obtain any legally required consent. (Section 4.d)
Cool. Meaning you either inform every guest before they enter your home or they can sue you. Great LG! This is a good way to ensure to land on my personal forever-blacklist. I won't even come back to check whether you changed.