The updates themselves can be a driver of new Win 11 computer purchases. My dad got a bad update (I couldn't figure out which one) which froze his computer a few minutes after boot. I had to reset Windows, and it worked again after that, though now the pain is mine because I have to reinstall/reconfig all his stuff. But a normal person without a free tech-support guy like me around might have just bought a new PC at that point.
Anyone who still needs to run Windows 10 for whatever reason should switch over to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) which will continue to receive security updates up through 2032.
We had a PC that came properly-licensed with that edition of Windows (with the matching sticker and everything), and it didn't work out as a desktop machine for the intended user. It's been a year or two and some details are lost, but IIRC there were issues with some Intuit program or other.
It was probably something that could have been worked around, but workarounds tend to pile up. I avoided the problem by putting a more-pedestrian version of Windows 10 on it instead.
This is bad advice that is being repeated over and over by the so called tech influencers. You go to an older version that only got security updates so you will lack optimizations and features already in the current stable windows 10. And for the foreseeable future you gain nothing at all.
If one day the normal version acctually stops reviving security updates, it almost certainly will be possible to switch the update channel to LTSC and get the LTSC updates that way but for now this is not needed and the switch is unnecessary
Also without some trickery, switching to LTSC requires a complete reinstallation, which for most people likely wasting sever hours.
Out of interest, what value do you think that a comment like that has, in a forum such as this? You're not likely to be informing people with information they're not already abundantly aware of.
Whereas the person you're responding to is adding value, for me at least. I am in what might be an edge-case position where I need to run software specific to Windows and, much more importantly run hardware that uses drivers which seemingly don't work on Windows 11 (I only learnt recently, whilst planning to finally 'upgrade').
I couldn't even begin to do what I do, ably and competently at least, in a Linux environment.
And I've had at least one laptop for general use running some flavour of Linux for about 16 years now.
It is, and if you can switch, it’s highly recommended. I have some pretty bespoke old RS-232 Windows software that was an absolute disaster to get working under Debian with Wine a few years back, so I (and others) might still need to keep a copy of Windows around.
Maybe get your governments and citizens to innovate and create their own instead of relying so heavily on other countries. I thought that's the direction other countries were trying to go.
You can continue using normal Windows 10 if you have a Microsoft account attached to it. They give you the option to sign up for free extended updates (until 2027).
...which is exactly what the featured article is about. But 2032 > 2027, so I have to assume the person you replied to already knew that and was providing additional advice.
There used to be a website something like "windowsserver2008gaming.com" or something like that idr the specific domain, that was literally a guide to turn old windows server OS installs into gaming computers. The golden years.
It does support "modern gaming" yes, but like the sibling comment mentions, at least Riot's anti-cheat demands Windows 10 22H2 (the last iteration of Win10) as a minimum. There are a few somewhat convoluted workarounds floating around that people use. Also Adobe CS seems to require Win10 22H2.
My only caveat is that I’m not sure how it handles multiplayer games that require anti-cheat or DRM-style mechanisms, but it’s been flawless with every title I’ve thrown at it so far (BG3, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cyberpunk, Ori, etc)
It's actually a question relating to what some people want to do with their computer. Most people don't run an OS because of some moral objection to other OS's but because it lets them do what they want with their device.
Also MS go to great lengths to make the secret good version of Windows (It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Mint) very difficult to buy.
So just torrent it. It's bad enough running Windows let alone giving money to MS.
> It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Min
I am not necessarily a Microsoft hater per se, but to insinuate
that Linux is on the same level as the Microsoft operating system
is really strange to me. Whenever I, for instance, have to copy
files to windows, I am getting annoyed at how slow it is compared
to Linux. And that's just one issue I have. Another one is how slow
e. g. ruby is on windows, compared to linux. The windows operating
system is simply not good. Linux also has issues, in particular
the main GUIs (both qt and gtk suck).
And good god...windows 11 updates still take fucking hours and still require multiple reboots. How this is still so painful after 2 decades is beyond me
What even is Microsoft's strategy? Windows 11 requiring TPM, Secure Boot and being all react wasn't great. Now we have a hardware shortage and ai in everything. I miss the time when it was "My computer" and not "This PC". I just hope they keep Windows 10 around till 2030 and longer...
>> Windows 11 requiring TPM, Secure Boot and being all react wasn't great.
For me a bigger concern is that Windows 11 requires MS account, and making harder and harder to bypass it. This is a disrespect for my freedom and privacy. The hardware is not the biggest issue because it might catch up eventually. https://waspdev.com/articles/2026-03-12/i-ll-probably-never-...
Also the constant turning on despite my prior explicitly disabling of spyware (memory ‘live sampling’ to the cloud for ‘virus protection’, one drive ‘auto backup’), and features I’ve explicitly disabled like copilot.
It’s creepy as fuck, and for no real benefit to me that I can tell.
The privacy-destroying "telemetry" continues to transmute from a theoretical problem to a realistic concern too.
For example, many printers puts forensic marks onto pages identifying their serial number, while MS/Apple log all your device serial numbers, which in turn is subject to seizure/threats/theft.
The upshot is you can't print an "anonymous" flyer stating I Dislike The Regime without the risk that thugs of said regime will be outside your door later.
> memory ‘live sampling’
"Citizen, the signature of a Wrongthink picture was detected in your telescreen..."
I was a ubuntu user and work forced me to use a windows machine. Over the years I've accumulated so much software that I have no intention of leaving behind (photoshop cs2). In the past year though, I've been transitioning back to Ubuntu. So many software now offer Linux support, there's even less incentives to stay with Microsoft products. And of course is doing everything in it's power to alienate us.
Have you tried wineHQ? It works very well IMO. But I also understand your point of view here; I have a second computer system on my left running Win10.
Too late. Had to switch to Fedora last year because my machine didn’t support TPM 2.0 and the CPU was one generation older. I know TPM 1.3 is less secure, but I didn’t care in the context of that specific machine. I wish I had the option. Fedora runs great on it though.
My last Windows machine is for games. Hopefully I'll be able to get a Steam machine for an easy exit. If a game doesn't run on it, I won't buy or play it.
Even aside from issues with W10 specifically, I'm so tired of having to download GBs of updates and then figure out which launch params to use to trick $GAME into launching when I find a few spare minutes to play games using Steam.
Contrast that with my Miyoo Mini+ handheld which lets me dip into games immediately whenever I have a few spare minutes (around the house, waiting for an appointment, waiting for kids, etc.). There are _thousands_ of games I've missed over the years and I've pretty much decided that I don't need to (i.e. can't) keep up with AAA releases or new consoles.
Needs to be logged in, so not exactly user friendly. But made me happy, I was afraid I might have to do updates again now I can continue life not being bothered by windows update.
I think you can log in to activate without changing to a microsoft account for desktop login (or at least you can switch back, I have some machines on microsoft account and some not)
"Quietly," like in "has quietly become the biggest/best X" is silly and everywhere, but "quietly" in this sense of "they didn't announce it and people just happened to notice the change" is fine and descriptive I would say.
You can get a completely minimalist Windows 11 by grabbing an ISO from Microsoft then reprocessing the ISO by feeding it into this utility: https://github.com/christitustech/winutil (Win11 Creator Tab) to get a NEW ISO which you then install. The end result is an extremely clean and stable Windows 11 installation.
The resulting image can remove telemetry, bypass hardware requirement checks, and enable local account setup out of the box.
Do be aware that an autounattend.xml can cause Windows setup to execute arbitrary code. Their provenance matters too. It's relatively easy to encode scripts (or even binaries) into the XML to run during or after Windows setup. You can eyeball them, for sure, but I bet most people don't.
Indeed. I mention this in light of the high-profile supply-chain attacks recently across diverse platforms (Arch AUR, Shai-Hulud, etc). Any online tool that purports to modify an entire install medium should be heavily and continually scrutinised. I'm not saying the developer can't be trusted, but the infrastructure and people in general can't.
Anything I need windows for is work related and runs on my locked down (and actually very cleanly stripped down) windows 11 laptop. Its amazing how much Microsoft hates the consumer but bends over backwards for volume license purchasers.
I have Win10 on a computer on my left side as "backup" system.
I decided I won't change to Win11, so Win10 will be last
Windows version to use. It's no issue in that I am using
Linux since late ~2004 anyway, but I am also unwilling to
cater to Microsoft anylonger. I think it is time that governments
no longer force people to use Windows in general. For similar
reasons I reject the upcoming mandatory age sniffing that
lobbyists are pushing for (together with their attempt to
kill off VPNs).
Don't forget the Windows NT configuration consoles like MMC, and other 9x configuration dialogs not accessible from the control panel, like the one to show or hide desktop icons.
The reason for this is that there are still drivers for old hardware that hook into the old control panel elements to actually function.
If you get rid of the control panel applets, you break the drivers.
This is also an old and out-of-date complaint. Almost all of the settings are now inside the Settings application and only inside the Settings application, with the related control panel applets gone.
The old "Windows alternates good and bad releases" rule is dead and buried. Every major version since Windows 7 has been a downgrade on what came before. I'd rather be using Windows 8 than Windows 10 and you will have to drag me kicking and screaming into Windows 11.
The updates themselves can be a driver of new Win 11 computer purchases. My dad got a bad update (I couldn't figure out which one) which froze his computer a few minutes after boot. I had to reset Windows, and it worked again after that, though now the pain is mine because I have to reinstall/reconfig all his stuff. But a normal person without a free tech-support guy like me around might have just bought a new PC at that point.
Anyone who still needs to run Windows 10 for whatever reason should switch over to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (version 21H2) which will continue to receive security updates up through 2032.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/rel...
We had a PC that came properly-licensed with that edition of Windows (with the matching sticker and everything), and it didn't work out as a desktop machine for the intended user. It's been a year or two and some details are lost, but IIRC there were issues with some Intuit program or other.
It was probably something that could have been worked around, but workarounds tend to pile up. I avoided the problem by putting a more-pedestrian version of Windows 10 on it instead.
This is bad advice that is being repeated over and over by the so called tech influencers. You go to an older version that only got security updates so you will lack optimizations and features already in the current stable windows 10. And for the foreseeable future you gain nothing at all. If one day the normal version acctually stops reviving security updates, it almost certainly will be possible to switch the update channel to LTSC and get the LTSC updates that way but for now this is not needed and the switch is unnecessary Also without some trickery, switching to LTSC requires a complete reinstallation, which for most people likely wasting sever hours.
Linux is free and less wasteful on resources on the other hand.
Out of interest, what value do you think that a comment like that has, in a forum such as this? You're not likely to be informing people with information they're not already abundantly aware of.
Whereas the person you're responding to is adding value, for me at least. I am in what might be an edge-case position where I need to run software specific to Windows and, much more importantly run hardware that uses drivers which seemingly don't work on Windows 11 (I only learnt recently, whilst planning to finally 'upgrade').
I couldn't even begin to do what I do, ably and competently at least, in a Linux environment.
And I've had at least one laptop for general use running some flavour of Linux for about 16 years now.
Maybe not you, but many times I am asked what my setup looks like, because I game on Linux which is not as problematic as it used to be in the 2000s.
windows user ^
Indeed, I'm fairly confident that I very specifically stated as much, as the fundamental underpinning of my comment.
You might be interested in https://www.reddit.com/ .
reddit user ^
It is, and if you can switch, it’s highly recommended. I have some pretty bespoke old RS-232 Windows software that was an absolute disaster to get working under Debian with Wine a few years back, so I (and others) might still need to keep a copy of Windows around.
Might want to try again, Wine progressed a lot in the past couple years.
It works well, though its messages could use some TLC:
wine whatever.exe 2>/dev/null
Can’t wait till Fable 6 can just decompile and reimplement old software like that.
Great for the americans. What are the rest of us going to do?
Use the distilled chinese models.
Maybe get your governments and citizens to innovate and create their own instead of relying so heavily on other countries. I thought that's the direction other countries were trying to go.
Try Opus 4.8? It's just a language translation task. LLMs should be good at it.
VMs were not an option?
Unless it's some Microsoft version of Linux, of course, in which every keystroke you type performs a docker run ... or whatever.
Well, not just anyone can buy a license for it. You need some sort of enterprise volume license agreement, as far as I can tell.
Within EU, you could buy licenses from one of the legal license resell markets. For everyone outside of reach of the law, there‘s massgravel.
If you're considering switching to Win 10 IoT you're probably not in the "people who pay for Windows" category.
You can continue using normal Windows 10 if you have a Microsoft account attached to it. They give you the option to sign up for free extended updates (until 2027).
...which is exactly what the featured article is about. But 2032 > 2027, so I have to assume the person you replied to already knew that and was providing additional advice.
But they might keep extending it...
They have to update the IOT version anyway, so might as well get some money off of regular users anyway by "extending" it.
except they are extending it now for free
Current trends indicate that regular Windows 10 may as well.
Does that support modern gaming?
There used to be a website something like "windowsserver2008gaming.com" or something like that idr the specific domain, that was literally a guide to turn old windows server OS installs into gaming computers. The golden years.
If you mean “modern” as in technologies like HDR, no.
It does support "modern gaming" yes, but like the sibling comment mentions, at least Riot's anti-cheat demands Windows 10 22H2 (the last iteration of Win10) as a minimum. There are a few somewhat convoluted workarounds floating around that people use. Also Adobe CS seems to require Win10 22H2.
My only caveat is that I’m not sure how it handles multiplayer games that require anti-cheat or DRM-style mechanisms, but it’s been flawless with every title I’ve thrown at it so far (BG3, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Cyberpunk, Ori, etc)
Even Riot’s rootkit “Vanguard” has reduced requirements for Windows 10.
"modern gaming" being a euphemism for "more proprietary software that has chained us to even worse proprietary software for decades".
I don’t feel particularly chained to proprietary software just by playing games. I play all of them on Linux using open source software.
Yes, the games themselves are proprietary, but that’s because they’re primarily art pieces, and that generally makes sense.
It's actually a question relating to what some people want to do with their computer. Most people don't run an OS because of some moral objection to other OS's but because it lets them do what they want with their device.
Also MS go to great lengths to make the secret good version of Windows (It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Mint) very difficult to buy. So just torrent it. It's bad enough running Windows let alone giving money to MS.
> It honestly is very good, I'd put it up there with Linux Min
I am not necessarily a Microsoft hater per se, but to insinuate that Linux is on the same level as the Microsoft operating system is really strange to me. Whenever I, for instance, have to copy files to windows, I am getting annoyed at how slow it is compared to Linux. And that's just one issue I have. Another one is how slow e. g. ruby is on windows, compared to linux. The windows operating system is simply not good. Linux also has issues, in particular the main GUIs (both qt and gtk suck).
And good god...windows 11 updates still take fucking hours and still require multiple reboots. How this is still so painful after 2 decades is beyond me
What even is Microsoft's strategy? Windows 11 requiring TPM, Secure Boot and being all react wasn't great. Now we have a hardware shortage and ai in everything. I miss the time when it was "My computer" and not "This PC". I just hope they keep Windows 10 around till 2030 and longer...
>> Windows 11 requiring TPM, Secure Boot and being all react wasn't great.
For me a bigger concern is that Windows 11 requires MS account, and making harder and harder to bypass it. This is a disrespect for my freedom and privacy. The hardware is not the biggest issue because it might catch up eventually. https://waspdev.com/articles/2026-03-12/i-ll-probably-never-...
And in order to get the Windows 10 updates in the article, you need to sign up for an MS account, or pay them $30 a year not to spy on you.
> And in order to get the Windows 10 updates in the article, you need to sign up for an MS account, or pay them $30 a year not to spy on you.
Can you elaborate on the "or pay them $30 a year not to spy on you" part?
Ctrl-F isn't finding any mention of that in either https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-quietly-gets-one-more... or https://waspdev.com/articles/2026-03-12/i-ll-probably-never-....
Also the constant turning on despite my prior explicitly disabling of spyware (memory ‘live sampling’ to the cloud for ‘virus protection’, one drive ‘auto backup’), and features I’ve explicitly disabled like copilot.
It’s creepy as fuck, and for no real benefit to me that I can tell.
> spyware
The privacy-destroying "telemetry" continues to transmute from a theoretical problem to a realistic concern too.
For example, many printers puts forensic marks onto pages identifying their serial number, while MS/Apple log all your device serial numbers, which in turn is subject to seizure/threats/theft.
The upshot is you can't print an "anonymous" flyer stating I Dislike The Regime without the risk that thugs of said regime will be outside your door later.
> memory ‘live sampling’
"Citizen, the signature of a Wrongthink picture was detected in your telescreen..."
I'm. Lt sure why this is down voted. ICE showed up at a woman's door trying to force her to take down a benign social media post.
What is stopping similar authoritarians from cracking down using these kind of features and registrations?
https://newrepublic.com/post/212340/ice-poll-worker-election...
I assume they're secretly trying to get people over to Mageia.
The people I've switched from windows to Mageia since win11 all love it.
(As great as Mageia is, it does have small repos compared to Debian or fedora.)
oh, it's the former mandriva, cool! but last released in 2023?! https://www.mageia.org/en/
Requiring a sodding Copilot advert on the keyboard too, in the case of laptops..
I was a ubuntu user and work forced me to use a windows machine. Over the years I've accumulated so much software that I have no intention of leaving behind (photoshop cs2). In the past year though, I've been transitioning back to Ubuntu. So many software now offer Linux support, there's even less incentives to stay with Microsoft products. And of course is doing everything in it's power to alienate us.
Have you tried wineHQ? It works very well IMO. But I also understand your point of view here; I have a second computer system on my left running Win10.
I predict it will be extended at least another year if not two on top of this.
The install base is just too high. Microsoft has to support it, or find a way to convince more people to upgrade.
Too late. Had to switch to Fedora last year because my machine didn’t support TPM 2.0 and the CPU was one generation older. I know TPM 1.3 is less secure, but I didn’t care in the context of that specific machine. I wish I had the option. Fedora runs great on it though.
when I need the Web I use Live Linux. I do not EVER let MS, or anybody else muck up my computer system(s).
Windows 10 for me until new games won't run on it
My last Windows machine is for games. Hopefully I'll be able to get a Steam machine for an easy exit. If a game doesn't run on it, I won't buy or play it.
And then?
Old games only
I'll just play Aliens a Comic Book Adventure like a good DOS boy till I drop dead. Idc
This is pretty much where I've landed.
Even aside from issues with W10 specifically, I'm so tired of having to download GBs of updates and then figure out which launch params to use to trick $GAME into launching when I find a few spare minutes to play games using Steam.
Contrast that with my Miyoo Mini+ handheld which lets me dip into games immediately whenever I have a few spare minutes (around the house, waiting for an appointment, waiting for kids, etc.). There are _thousands_ of games I've missed over the years and I've pretty much decided that I don't need to (i.e. can't) keep up with AAA releases or new consoles.
Steam box probably
Needs to be logged in, so not exactly user friendly. But made me happy, I was afraid I might have to do updates again now I can continue life not being bothered by windows update.
You can use https://github.com/abbodi1406/ConsumerESU to bypass the account requirement.
I think you can log in to activate without changing to a microsoft account for desktop login (or at least you can switch back, I have some machines on microsoft account and some not)
Especially with hardware prices at the moment, this is a welcome announcement for many companies right now who need a refresh.
And sad for us. We may have to wait for nice cheap used hardware for use with Linux or *BSD.
But I wonder if components would have been stripped out due to AI. I heard even older RAM and SDD/HDD are getting expensive.
At least in a desktop context, you can get by with just a separate drive to boot-to.
They could actually help with the RAM and SSD shortage by extending support for Windows 10.
"Quietly" seem to be the most popular headline word this year.
"Quietly," like in "has quietly become the biggest/best X" is silly and everywhere, but "quietly" in this sense of "they didn't announce it and people just happened to notice the change" is fine and descriptive I would say.
Win11 has come up short,
So 10 needs more support.
How do they offer it, according to AI?
Quietly,
quietly,
quiet... L-Y!
Biggest LLM giveaway these days
Do the start menu ads pay for this? It is conceivable that they could.
"quietly" is a dead give away for claude. It is everywhere.
Nice, it gives me another year to think about what I want to do with my old gaming laptop
this will probably go on for a long time, which is great because I won't install win11
You can get a completely minimalist Windows 11 by grabbing an ISO from Microsoft then reprocessing the ISO by feeding it into this utility: https://github.com/christitustech/winutil (Win11 Creator Tab) to get a NEW ISO which you then install. The end result is an extremely clean and stable Windows 11 installation.
Official docs:https://winutil.christitus.com/
https://winutil.christitus.com/userguide/win11creator/
To anyone reading this: please don't use ISOs downloaded from not-official sources.
Use an autounattend.xml, the mass graves, and a WinGet JSON to customise an online image.
[1]: https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
[2]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows/package-manager/wi...
Do be aware that an autounattend.xml can cause Windows setup to execute arbitrary code. Their provenance matters too. It's relatively easy to encode scripts (or even binaries) into the XML to run during or after Windows setup. You can eyeball them, for sure, but I bet most people don't.
Indeed. I mention this in light of the high-profile supply-chain attacks recently across diverse platforms (Arch AUR, Shai-Hulud, etc). Any online tool that purports to modify an entire install medium should be heavily and continually scrutinised. I'm not saying the developer can't be trusted, but the infrastructure and people in general can't.
The tool linked by the parent doesn't download ISOs from non-official sources.
I use uup dump myself, which downloads the components directly from MS and builds the ISO locally
Did you even read what I wrote?
I did. You said:
> to get a NEW ISO which you then install
This is not good.
NTlite has also been around for more than a decade, although it has a freemium model.
That won't help you get to the minimum of Win10, though
Yes it will, please re-read carefully. winutil removes hardware checks.
Even cleaner when you don't install Windows at all :P
Why would people put themselves through the painful process of keeping themselves safe from their own computer?
Not everyone has the luxury of moving off of Windows. Solidworks, for example, has no Linux or Mac port.
Though I do agree, if your workflow is supported by any non-NT based OS, that's probably a better option
Anything I need windows for is work related and runs on my locked down (and actually very cleanly stripped down) windows 11 laptop. Its amazing how much Microsoft hates the consumer but bends over backwards for volume license purchasers.
I have Win10 on a computer on my left side as "backup" system.
I decided I won't change to Win11, so Win10 will be last Windows version to use. It's no issue in that I am using Linux since late ~2004 anyway, but I am also unwilling to cater to Microsoft anylonger. I think it is time that governments no longer force people to use Windows in general. For similar reasons I reject the upcoming mandatory age sniffing that lobbyists are pushing for (together with their attempt to kill off VPNs).
I wonder if it’s because hardware costs are going up
Thanks DoD! While you’re at it let’s keep SCCM around for another 50 years! Woooo!
Why does Windows 11 still have "Control Panel" and "Settings", both of which are similar but entirely different?
I hate Microsoft, I was very happy with Windows 10 but Windows 11 is different for no reason except to be different.
Don't forget the Windows NT configuration consoles like MMC, and other 9x configuration dialogs not accessible from the control panel, like the one to show or hide desktop icons.
The reason for this is that there are still drivers for old hardware that hook into the old control panel elements to actually function.
If you get rid of the control panel applets, you break the drivers.
This is also an old and out-of-date complaint. Almost all of the settings are now inside the Settings application and only inside the Settings application, with the related control panel applets gone.
The old "Windows alternates good and bad releases" rule is dead and buried. Every major version since Windows 7 has been a downgrade on what came before. I'd rather be using Windows 8 than Windows 10 and you will have to drag me kicking and screaming into Windows 11.
This rule was always wrong and stupid, people skipped versions and never started at the beginning to fit the narrative.