That I, an old person, know what it means suggests that it has already gone from (1) the incel or whatever community usage, to (2) ironic usage by others, and then finally to (3) widespread usage entirely divorced from the original meaning.
I’m 42, and definitely don’t feel old yet - at least, my mind doesn’t feel old. My body is beginning to show me what’s it going to be like.
I don’t think my generation is nearly as out of touch with youth and niche culture as our parents were. While there are definitely examples of slang that surprise me and for which I’ve not quite nailed down the colloquial usage, it’s extremely rare that I can’t infer the meaning from context.
For that matter, I’ve adopted some of it where it makes sense. “-maxxing” is handy, and conveys more than “optimize for”; I might say I’m “tokenmaxxing” when I’m talking about intentionally using more costly inference than necessary because I’m not the one paying for it and the time necessary to optimize utilization isn’t worth it to me as a result. Basically implicitly recognizing that what I’m doing is ridiculous when viewed from the outside.
The only slang I can think of that I’ve not fully understood is “type shit”. I get that it usually used as an affirmation of someone else’s statement - but not always. I think its exact semantics are likely still in flux, because I’ve heard it used to mean all kinds of unrelated things depending on tone.
—-
Thinking about this, I wonder if it’s not a continuation of the same processes that lead to the disappearance of many regional accents. That’s generally accepted to be happening, and caused by the rise of mass media (radio, TV, Internet).
Maybe the Internet (social media in particular) has lumped everyone together in one giant community, and as a result slang no longer has time to solidly meaning in a niche group before reaching the general public.
I'm guessing most people think that "old" is 10-20 years ahead of them, regardless of their age. So someone in their 20s thinks 40 is old, while someone in their 40s thinks 50 is old. Or something like that.
Yeah it’s a full generalization of “$NOUN-type shit” being a declaration that something that gives an impression of being characteristic of $NOUN in some way.
The gen z ascendant version is “what does it mean to omit the $NOUN entirely?” and makes it a bit more of an existential exclamation, like “that’s some real shit” or just “real shit”.
Nah it kept it's meaning, just spread more. If anything, the level of abstraction grew. "Mogged' used to be a standalone phrase, but now it's always "___mogged".
Before “mogged” was a standalone phrase, it was apparently “AMOG” - “Alpha Male of the Group”.
I don’t remember knowing that before this conversation. I asked Claude for the history of the term, then for primary sources, and manually put the below together to show a history of the term over time:
This is true, but there's an extra nuance: mogging isn't just dominance, but effortless dominance (or at least seemingly effortless). Incels use this to justify their aversion to putting effort of any sort into anything: if other people don't have to try, why should they?
There's an interesting Behind the Bastards podcast about the rise of incel culture and its push into mainstream. It's called "From Elliot Rodger to Clavicular." They talk about the language of incels and how their vocabulary tends to end up in the mainstream at a surprising rate compared to other fringe cultures. "Mogging" is one of those terms that comes from incels.
My theory is that these people are the stewards of internet culture. Moderators, meme creators, leaders of niche online communities. Therefore the jokes they make spread a lot more easily due to exposure.
I think part of it is that people use it ironically to make fun of incel culture but then it gets absorbed into our language unironically. Similar to how AAVE ends up in mainstream language because non-Black people use it ironically (more to make fun of themselves), but then it ends up becoming an everyday part of the language.
The know your meme page on it is extensive. My distillation is:
Mogging is behaving as though you expect everyone is going to think you're great because of how you look; in particular that you think you look better than someone right next to you.
Although I have the misfortune of knowing what it means, every time I see it some part of my brain assumes it's something to do with cats (via British slang).
What I gathered is that "mog" is from "amog" which means "alpha male of the group", which makes "mogging" being "out-alpha'd". Which isn't new, it goes back years if not decades to the "alpha male" trends through "pick-up artists" to modern-day incel/bro/manosphere/etc subcultures.
I know the author from about ten years ago and I'm not surprised he's into it. But also he's Dutch so it's probably used very much ironically / as a joke here.
I don't know what "site mogging" is, but apparently "emsh.cat mogged simonwillison.net" with the following description:
> emsh.cat wins due to its superior use of negative space and a more intentional, minimalist typographic hierarchy that creates a sophisticated reading experience. While simonwilliam.net provides high information density, emsh.cat achieves a more polished and modern aesthetic through its refined layout and balanced composition.
So "mogged" is about minimalism somehow? Fancy/modern term for "beauty" or similar?
Mogging is gen z alphabro/incel speak for "dominating" another that gets used ironically. If I'm taller than you, I might say "get heightmogged". This is used to absurdity, where one is able to get mogged in any number of varieties, including having the nicer website "sitemogged?"
"owning" generally requires doing something to the other person, such as defeating them in an online shooter
Whereas you "mog" simply by being within range of the other person, you don't even have to interact, but a third party can see your natural advantages over that other person, thus "mogging" them.
Not sure about this one - my slightly terrible portfolio website that i'm in the process of completely revamping (bemben.co.uk) managed to mog simon wilsons webblog (https://simonwillison.net/) - which is a far better website in all aspects!
Maybe introduce some additional stats like load times, content analysis etc - and tweak the prompt slightly - just because a website looks slightly newer, doesn't mean it's better at all!
Fun that we both used simonw as the "competitor", and both of our more minimalistic websites won over him! :)
So the obvious next step is to pit them against each other, seems your "premium, editorial feel" won out!
> bemben.co.uk wins due to its sophisticated use of typography and a cohesive dark-mode aesthetic that creates a premium, editorial feel. While emsh.cat is functional and clean, it lacks the intentional visual hierarchy and character found in the layout of bemben.co.uk.
There's so much tracking on this site it's even running WebGL to try and fingerprint the browser. Is that really necessary for a joke site, or does this ship by default with every CloudFlare site?
Mogging is vocabulary from the incel-community whcih has unfortunately become mainstream. As with so much other incel garbage (like x-maxxing and x-pilling).
EDIT: Around 16 years ago I was very much into bodybuilding and fitness, and spent a lot of time on the bodybuilding misc forum. Around that time the incel community started to take shape, and you had forums like PUA hate and other dark corners of the internet. These people were also very active on the bodybuilding forums, and would try to steer users over to the incel communities (interesting note: These communities started out as a place where unsuccessful men could vent over having spent money on pick-up artists, without any results).
Those places had a very distinct lingo, which is the very same that you see today with mogging / maxxing / pilling / etc. They even had a glossary.
Were those words older than those communities? Yes, very much so. But they've been completely hi-jacked, and any modern usage comes from those communities.
Consider the possibility that the general public enjoy neologisms regardless of their source, and will take and adapt them just for fun, without ascribing to the ideologies of the coiners.
Also consider that people are laughing at the cant and its speakers, rather than with them.
If you need evidence of this, try saying this without laughing: "Clavicular was mid jestergooning when a group of Foids came and spiked his Cortisol levels. Is Ignoring the Foids while munting and mogging moids more useful than SMV chadfishing in the club?"
IIRC the bodybuilding forums' complete insanity long predates the incels (or at least their existence as a named group); SomethingAwful was making fun of them back on the early noughties.
Not sure why, but they always seemed to be terribly vulnerable to nonsense.
> x-maxxing morphed out of "minmaxing" in gaming culture.
Which comes from RPGs, the old school tabletop ones. Then I don't know if the ML/DS term "Minmax" predates the RPGs or if it's the other way around, neither would surprise me.
Maybe im not in the target audience, but i had to look up what mogging is because its not explained anywhere
It's incel-speak for dominating someone.
"IQ-mogged" would mean that person A was dominated/overshadowed/etc. by person B because person B is very smart.
"Height-mogged" would mean the same, but due to height.
That I, an old person, know what it means suggests that it has already gone from (1) the incel or whatever community usage, to (2) ironic usage by others, and then finally to (3) widespread usage entirely divorced from the original meaning.
Not to pry, but how old is “old”?
I’m 42, and definitely don’t feel old yet - at least, my mind doesn’t feel old. My body is beginning to show me what’s it going to be like.
I don’t think my generation is nearly as out of touch with youth and niche culture as our parents were. While there are definitely examples of slang that surprise me and for which I’ve not quite nailed down the colloquial usage, it’s extremely rare that I can’t infer the meaning from context.
For that matter, I’ve adopted some of it where it makes sense. “-maxxing” is handy, and conveys more than “optimize for”; I might say I’m “tokenmaxxing” when I’m talking about intentionally using more costly inference than necessary because I’m not the one paying for it and the time necessary to optimize utilization isn’t worth it to me as a result. Basically implicitly recognizing that what I’m doing is ridiculous when viewed from the outside.
The only slang I can think of that I’ve not fully understood is “type shit”. I get that it usually used as an affirmation of someone else’s statement - but not always. I think its exact semantics are likely still in flux, because I’ve heard it used to mean all kinds of unrelated things depending on tone.
—-
Thinking about this, I wonder if it’s not a continuation of the same processes that lead to the disappearance of many regional accents. That’s generally accepted to be happening, and caused by the rise of mass media (radio, TV, Internet).
Maybe the Internet (social media in particular) has lumped everyone together in one giant community, and as a result slang no longer has time to solidly meaning in a niche group before reaching the general public.
I'm guessing most people think that "old" is 10-20 years ahead of them, regardless of their age. So someone in their 20s thinks 40 is old, while someone in their 40s thinks 50 is old. Or something like that.
> The only slang I can think of that I’ve not fully understood is “type shit”
It is mostly equivalent to "That's what's up."
Right - usually. But I’ve heard people use it in a questioning or disapproving way. Tone conveys a lot.
Yeah it’s a full generalization of “$NOUN-type shit” being a declaration that something that gives an impression of being characteristic of $NOUN in some way.
The gen z ascendant version is “what does it mean to omit the $NOUN entirely?” and makes it a bit more of an existential exclamation, like “that’s some real shit” or just “real shit”.
thought that was a synonym for typescript :)
Nah it kept it's meaning, just spread more. If anything, the level of abstraction grew. "Mogged' used to be a standalone phrase, but now it's always "___mogged".
Before “mogged” was a standalone phrase, it was apparently “AMOG” - “Alpha Male of the Group”.
I don’t remember knowing that before this conversation. I asked Claude for the history of the term, then for primary sources, and manually put the below together to show a history of the term over time:
————
Stage 1: “AMOG” == “Alpha male of the group”.
> she is not yet into you and a AMOG upsurps you
September 2003
https://web.archive.org/web/20231203102826/http://www.fastse...
————
Stage 2: “amogged” ~= “dominated”
> He will never AMOG you agian.
August 2005
https://web.archive.org/web/20240719094244/http://www.fastse...
————
Stage 3: “mogged” (transition to a word without the context of the original initialism)
> Once thought invincible the mightly 6'8" 330 pound Martyn Ford is easily mogged upon
May 2016
https://desuarchive.org/fit/thread/37236240/
————
Stage 4: “-mog” (noun), “-mogging” (verb)
> he heightmogs hard
December 2020
https://looksmax.org/threads/why-are-height-mogs-not-as-brut...
Maybe I phrased it poorly, but I just mean the context for it changed as it became mainstream. I wouldn't say it's still "incel-speak."
Nah you just know a young person or have found your way into an incel information stream. It doesn't mean you represent a large population.
Then we're in (2) and I'm hip and ahead of the curve!
not just "incel" culture, at least not any more
Yep thanks to the man-o-sphere incel culture has become mainstream for young men and boys
This is true, but there's an extra nuance: mogging isn't just dominance, but effortless dominance (or at least seemingly effortless). Incels use this to justify their aversion to putting effort of any sort into anything: if other people don't have to try, why should they?
There's an interesting Behind the Bastards podcast about the rise of incel culture and its push into mainstream. It's called "From Elliot Rodger to Clavicular." They talk about the language of incels and how their vocabulary tends to end up in the mainstream at a surprising rate compared to other fringe cultures. "Mogging" is one of those terms that comes from incels.
My theory is that these people are the stewards of internet culture. Moderators, meme creators, leaders of niche online communities. Therefore the jokes they make spread a lot more easily due to exposure.
I think part of it is that people use it ironically to make fun of incel culture but then it gets absorbed into our language unironically. Similar to how AAVE ends up in mainstream language because non-Black people use it ironically (more to make fun of themselves), but then it ends up becoming an everyday part of the language.
Damn I read that kid's manifesto, he was very messed up. It's crazy that there's a throughline from him to today. He should have been the wakeup call.
Classic mogging: https://www.youtube.com/@jacob_rees_mogg
The know your meme page on it is extensive. My distillation is:
Mogging is behaving as though you expect everyone is going to think you're great because of how you look; in particular that you think you look better than someone right next to you.
Although I have the misfortune of knowing what it means, every time I see it some part of my brain assumes it's something to do with cats (via British slang).
I only heard of it due to a memecoin, and people trying to promote the memecoin using the ‘point at you, laughing cat’ emoji combo.
What I gathered is that "mog" is from "amog" which means "alpha male of the group", which makes "mogging" being "out-alpha'd". Which isn't new, it goes back years if not decades to the "alpha male" trends through "pick-up artists" to modern-day incel/bro/manosphere/etc subcultures.
I know the author from about ten years ago and I'm not surprised he's into it. But also he's Dutch so it's probably used very much ironically / as a joke here.
So, classic dick-waving or pissing contest behaviour?
Ironically, Cloudflare won't let Cloudflare Cloudflare:
https://sitemogging.com/mogged/asda.com-vs-tesco.com
asda.com uses Cloudflare to block Cloudflare
tesco.com uses Akamai to block Cloudflare
I don't know what "site mogging" is, but apparently "emsh.cat mogged simonwillison.net" with the following description:
> emsh.cat wins due to its superior use of negative space and a more intentional, minimalist typographic hierarchy that creates a sophisticated reading experience. While simonwilliam.net provides high information density, emsh.cat achieves a more polished and modern aesthetic through its refined layout and balanced composition.
So "mogged" is about minimalism somehow? Fancy/modern term for "beauty" or similar?
I think it means which site is numberwang.
Mogging is gen z alphabro/incel speak for "dominating" another that gets used ironically. If I'm taller than you, I might say "get heightmogged". This is used to absurdity, where one is able to get mogged in any number of varieties, including having the nicer website "sitemogged?"
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mogging
So it's basically "owned", just a generation later...
Didn't know Jacob Rees-Mogg was so popular with the kids... (please not)
"owning" generally requires doing something to the other person, such as defeating them in an online shooter
Whereas you "mog" simply by being within range of the other person, you don't even have to interact, but a third party can see your natural advantages over that other person, thus "mogging" them.
Oh, that’s actually usefully different from any other English word that comes to mind. (And more playful than eclipsing.)
So, this would be cperciva HN-mogging sanj, basically? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35079
> cperciva on July 18, 2007 "Did you win the Putnam?" Yes, I did.
I'd say more like Putnam-mogging, but yes, 100% mogging.
SNL made fun of it:
Weekend Update: Chad Maxxington on the Art of Looksmaxxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XMPLdiXB1k
Can't wait till South Park makes fun of it!
Cartman will jestermog every looksmaxxer.
Not sure about this one - my slightly terrible portfolio website that i'm in the process of completely revamping (bemben.co.uk) managed to mog simon wilsons webblog (https://simonwillison.net/) - which is a far better website in all aspects!
Maybe introduce some additional stats like load times, content analysis etc - and tweak the prompt slightly - just because a website looks slightly newer, doesn't mean it's better at all!
Fun that we both used simonw as the "competitor", and both of our more minimalistic websites won over him! :)
So the obvious next step is to pit them against each other, seems your "premium, editorial feel" won out!
> bemben.co.uk wins due to its sophisticated use of typography and a cohesive dark-mode aesthetic that creates a premium, editorial feel. While emsh.cat is functional and clean, it lacks the intentional visual hierarchy and character found in the layout of bemben.co.uk.
I love it saying typography being sophisticated - I have two fonts, one font being from indieground.net!
Love it. Hope the next reveal will be sitemaxxing.
Shame about the screenshotting feature - it doesn't afford the ability for a more interactive site to really showcase itself.
Good example: The site of the family office of the heir to the Nintendo empire only got a 4/10 https://www.y-n10.com/
Haha, great project. I had no idea what mogging means, but my underdog site apparently mogged the segment leader: https://sitemogging.com/mogged/dles.aukspot.com-vs-dles.gg
This is a fun tool. I compared https://www.tyleo.com to Hacker News and won (Hacker News got 2.7, not hard to beat).
What I really wanted though was just a way to get my own site’s score without having a competitor.
Seems legit for Google vs Kagi: https://sitemogging.com/mogged/google.com-vs-kagi.com
There's so much tracking on this site it's even running WebGL to try and fingerprint the browser. Is that really necessary for a joke site, or does this ship by default with every CloudFlare site?
This is funny because to me "mogg" means the encrypted multichannel song audio format for Rock Band games
Interesting: "whitehouse.gov cannot be mogged because it resolves or redirects to a private/internal network address."
The first octet of the IP it resolves to is "192", maybe someone implemented the check for private/internal range wrong and is only looking for that.
I love how Hacker News seems to loose out to basically everything, even example.com ("such intentional use of whitespace!")
I mean, yeah, that’s to be expected.
The site is intentionally kept visually unappealing.
It appeals to a different set of users, I'd say. I strongly prefer it, as it's easy to skim and easy to use.
Is it really? If so, why?
I love it. It turns out my friends site is mogging mine. Can't let this stand, time to vibe. Thank you for prompting me to act.
First time I come across mogging, but this looks like a automated evaluation version of a hot or not for websites.
"Sitemogs.com" would have rolled off the tongue better
Can't use it, the form has captcha which detects me as a bot:(
Four(?) years ago this could have been a PhD thesis project
Websitepilled comparisonmaxxing
this would work better if gemma 4 actually could tell what it was looking at
Not to be confused with morging
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47057829
This was bound to be a thing. Good stuff lol
Mogging is vocabulary from the incel-community whcih has unfortunately become mainstream. As with so much other incel garbage (like x-maxxing and x-pilling).
EDIT: Around 16 years ago I was very much into bodybuilding and fitness, and spent a lot of time on the bodybuilding misc forum. Around that time the incel community started to take shape, and you had forums like PUA hate and other dark corners of the internet. These people were also very active on the bodybuilding forums, and would try to steer users over to the incel communities (interesting note: These communities started out as a place where unsuccessful men could vent over having spent money on pick-up artists, without any results).
Those places had a very distinct lingo, which is the very same that you see today with mogging / maxxing / pilling / etc. They even had a glossary.
Were those words older than those communities? Yes, very much so. But they've been completely hi-jacked, and any modern usage comes from those communities.
Consider the possibility that the general public enjoy neologisms regardless of their source, and will take and adapt them just for fun, without ascribing to the ideologies of the coiners.
Also consider that people are laughing at the cant and its speakers, rather than with them.
If you need evidence of this, try saying this without laughing: "Clavicular was mid jestergooning when a group of Foids came and spiked his Cortisol levels. Is Ignoring the Foids while munting and mogging moids more useful than SMV chadfishing in the club?"
Let's not be tribal. Even the incels have something valuable to contribute to the conversation.
"Let's not be tribal. Even Goebbels has something valuable to contribute to the conversation."
That's how naive you sound. Give me a break.
Godwin has entered the chat with great swiftness.
How, and why, are we supposed to have a conversation about fascist propaganda without mentioning Nazis?
Everyone has the freedom of speech, just like everyone else has the freedom to ignore anything they have to say.
IIRC the bodybuilding forums' complete insanity long predates the incels (or at least their existence as a named group); SomethingAwful was making fun of them back on the early noughties.
Not sure why, but they always seemed to be terribly vulnerable to nonsense.
> But they've been completely hi-jacked, and any modern usage comes from those communities.
Couldn't you say the same thing about it breaking out into the wider Gen Z vocabulary as well?
For completeness, x-maxxing morphed out of "minmaxing" in gaming culture.
https://old.reddit.com/r/rpg_gamers/comments/kew14o/ok_what_...
It was fine before they got hold of it.
> x-maxxing morphed out of "minmaxing" in gaming culture.
Which comes from RPGs, the old school tabletop ones. Then I don't know if the ML/DS term "Minmax" predates the RPGs or if it's the other way around, neither would surprise me.
von neumann's minimax theorem dates back to 1928
Er shit, thanks for the correction. That's what I thought I was linking to. I'm not good at reddit.
mog comes from “alpha male of the group” (amog) — so mogging means that as a verb (to dominate as an alpha male)..