There is a reason why no US president in the last 40 years has gone through with the fantasy of attacking Iran. When even George W. Bush decides against a war, it means something.
I think George himself is the reason we wound up in Iraq and not Iran. That cabinet was just itching to invade a country full of brown people and oil we could "liberate". Afghanistan obviously didn't scratch that itch and all those people, just by nature of what was going on in the world earlier in their careers, f-ing hated Iran. Buuut, Iran would've been a tough sell. Meanwhile, just over the border there's this other other country full of oil and brown people that's run by a guy the world already considers bad, the propaganda will be easier, the coalition that's keeping him under control is kinda falling apart so we can use the threat of regional destabilization and terrorism to get buy in, the Bush family regrets leaving him in power so any "out of band" advice he may seek is going to be favorable, etc, etc.
I will say this: a demonstrably better foreign policy to the good for the USA and everybody else is our own energy sufficiency trending into green energy.
Two, Israel and surrounding countries get they're act together themselves. Own you're own liberty. Like Aeschylus' Oresteia the furies are out of control.
Three, the general we in the US who voted for trump, the senate that approved the idiots running the executive branch, must move away from shadow boxing culture warfare. It's a waste. The dems lost twice to trump; they are out of touch. The current slate of Republicans are a sinister combination of wusses, liking trumps broader policies, but executing them so malignly and incompetently it's breaking into systemic destruction from law to prices. Im not a liberal; nobody is owning me with smart ass memes. We are simply failing each other while debt increases, our friends in the world are cold hearted to us (derservedly), while congress will not discharge its constitutional responsibilities.
I think im gonna volunteer to help with 2026 voting. Its our next shot at righting this rotten ship.
Of course, wanting to be technically correct: Iranians are Aryan (Iran is a variant spelling), and literally Caucasian (they live near the Caucasus on the Asian continent).
In other words, they're the prototype "White People", at least by claims - over and back. Not that that stops anyone anyway. Certainly doesn't stop people who merely claim to be Aryan :-P
To give an idea of how badly the Bush administration wanted to attack Iraq, Richard Clarke mentioned going into the White House situation room the day after 9/11 and seeing them talking about invading Iraq, and wondering how messed up your priorities had to be to be doing that.
Yeah it’s pretty obviously a stupid idea to attack one of the masters in drone warfare.
Iran mass produces drones and have optimized them for the modern battlefield in the Russian war against Ukraine.
You don’t win wars with jet aircraft anymore. You win them with (cheap, mass produced) drones. And the US only has expensive drones that can be manufactured at a low rate.
I am from India, and online gas booking is temporarily no longer available because waiting list is long now (we use gas cylinders, not piped gas here, and so have to book for cylinders to be delivered home when it becomes empty by use). Earlier, I used to get a cylinder within a day or two of booking, but now it is upto 2 weeks in my city. But I am well off, and can rely on electrical / induction stoves if need be. The really poor, who had been enticed to move away from firewoods to gas through free / highly subsidised cylinders are the ones feeling the real pain - they've gone back to using firewood now. Mid-day meal schemes in schools are also affected due to gas shortage and firewood is being used in some areas to ensure the poor students don't go hungry. Some restaurants and small-scale eateries that relied on gas for cooking too have gone back to using firewoods, because of government restrictions on gas usage.
I wonder what the overall effect of this war will be on global warming. If you put together the awful pollution caused by the battle itself and the reduced oil and gas production that follows, it could be a net benefit. Sure, it's a sarcastic pov, but I'm trying to cling to the positive here so be nice.
Not only is it pushing production down, but the resulting high prices are almost certainly going to cause permanently lower demand in certain sectors and countries ("demand destruction").
I would love to see a complete accounting in a year or so.
Not necessarily. It's going to massively drive up the demand for coal and wood consumption where it used to be (comparatively) less-polluting gas. We won't really know until 6-12 months have passed and we've collected the data.
Taking into account that Iran's own oil facilities had been bombed earlier this week and that they had threatened to retaliate if this happens, what Iran does seems indeed fair play.
Ras Laffan LNG complex in Qatar
Ras Tanura oil refinery in Saudi
drone attacks on Saudi oil fields
Ruwais refinery in Abu Dhabi
Shah gas field in Abu Dhabi
port of Fujairah
Bapco oil refinery in Bahrain
Agreed. I don't know whether to call it hypocrisy, delusion, bullshit, etc, but it is reidiculous that when Iran fights back the media and politicians act as if Iran started all this.
Example: the UK got a pat on the back for initially saying no to the US using their territory to launch bombing raids, and then later allowed it for "defensive" missions.
"Defensive"!?!
I'll punch you in the face, you punch me back, then when I punch you again I am only defending myself.
Of course they do, which is why Israel's retaliation was their prerogative too.
That being said, Hacker News isn't the place for politics so please can everyone go back to reddit if you're feeling emotional. Looking at you, juliusceasar.
Oh, stow it. Claim on you by the body politic doesn't end because you shove your fingers in your ears, or cover your eyes and go "Not listening! I see nothing!" Welcome to the real world, where grocery and fuel prices will be spiking because one particular group of morons decided to indulge in Nintendo warfare today. If you can't grow up enough to realize that your inaction and inattention drives these people's ability to get away with these things, you are part of the problem. Your luxury to abstain from the body politic is founded on the body politic not being suicidally aligned.
USA and Israel started it. USA does not get to blame the smaller country for a war its leadership wanted.
Second, no, "whatever Ira. Does is justified' is too much a blaket allowance. The Iranian regime does not get absolytion for everythijg just because it is in an illegal war USA started. They are plenty awful on their own.
But yes, similar Iranian infrastructure is targetted by USA and Israel. Not by Quatar.
And who has the videotape recordings taken by Epstein?
Seems to me it’s not very far fetched to believe it’s in the hands of the worlds most premiere spy agency, Mossad, who only needs to hint at revealing this compromising information to get what they want from American leadership. Plus of course their advanced offensive cyber attack capabilities.
Muslims grabbed land by force thousand years ago, while killed every one who disagreed.
History is full of violence, I am talking about current time. It is current Iran's choice to not accept Israel existence, in contrast to many other Arabic countries who normalized relationships.
Constantly sending missiles and drones towards civilian buildings in Dubai and Doha is morally bankrupt and unjustifiable. It doesn't matter who UAE & Qatar are aligned with, they were at least a friend to Iran for many years.
Is what Israel does in Gaza morally bankrupt and unjustifiable?
This isn't whataboutism because I'm not trying to negate your point. Instead, I'm just curious if you apply the same standard to Israel/Gaza or if you think that in that case killing innocent people is justified.
If you haven't already, look what Pete Hegseth (whose mother disowned him) had to say to the top US commanders about sparking armageddon. This is ultimate bullshit. Cosplaying assholes with captain hook style hangups.
"I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that Qatar would be - Qatar and the region - in such an attack, especially from a brotherly Muslim country in the month of Ramadan, attacking us in this way,"
That's enough of a display of true leadership to put the ones in the US, Iran, and Israel to complete shame like absolute garbage just because of how bad they need to be thrown out.
Good point, it's an oil kingdom that first got rich on dollars during the Arab Oil Embargo of the 1970's.
And it's been dollars even since, only more of them.
If you threw out the Qatari decision-makers though, it wouldn't have much positive impact compared to getting rid of the real stinkers around the world that are only getting worse.
There is a reason why no US president in the last 40 years has gone through with the fantasy of attacking Iran. When even George W. Bush decides against a war, it means something.
I think George himself is the reason we wound up in Iraq and not Iran. That cabinet was just itching to invade a country full of brown people and oil we could "liberate". Afghanistan obviously didn't scratch that itch and all those people, just by nature of what was going on in the world earlier in their careers, f-ing hated Iran. Buuut, Iran would've been a tough sell. Meanwhile, just over the border there's this other other country full of oil and brown people that's run by a guy the world already considers bad, the propaganda will be easier, the coalition that's keeping him under control is kinda falling apart so we can use the threat of regional destabilization and terrorism to get buy in, the Bush family regrets leaving him in power so any "out of band" advice he may seek is going to be favorable, etc, etc.
Well I'm not sure about any of that.
I will say this: a demonstrably better foreign policy to the good for the USA and everybody else is our own energy sufficiency trending into green energy.
Two, Israel and surrounding countries get they're act together themselves. Own you're own liberty. Like Aeschylus' Oresteia the furies are out of control.
Three, the general we in the US who voted for trump, the senate that approved the idiots running the executive branch, must move away from shadow boxing culture warfare. It's a waste. The dems lost twice to trump; they are out of touch. The current slate of Republicans are a sinister combination of wusses, liking trumps broader policies, but executing them so malignly and incompetently it's breaking into systemic destruction from law to prices. Im not a liberal; nobody is owning me with smart ass memes. We are simply failing each other while debt increases, our friends in the world are cold hearted to us (derservedly), while congress will not discharge its constitutional responsibilities.
I think im gonna volunteer to help with 2026 voting. Its our next shot at righting this rotten ship.
Of course, wanting to be technically correct: Iranians are Aryan (Iran is a variant spelling), and literally Caucasian (they live near the Caucasus on the Asian continent).
In other words, they're the prototype "White People", at least by claims - over and back. Not that that stops anyone anyway. Certainly doesn't stop people who merely claim to be Aryan :-P
Irony, that.
To give an idea of how badly the Bush administration wanted to attack Iraq, Richard Clarke mentioned going into the White House situation room the day after 9/11 and seeing them talking about invading Iraq, and wondering how messed up your priorities had to be to be doing that.
Well, hindsight's 20/20.
Trump just doesn't have the snap that Biden had when he was that age, much less Bush.
Foresight, in this case, was also 20/20. Just because they didn’t listen doesn’t mean they weren’t told.
Yeah it’s pretty obviously a stupid idea to attack one of the masters in drone warfare.
Iran mass produces drones and have optimized them for the modern battlefield in the Russian war against Ukraine.
You don’t win wars with jet aircraft anymore. You win them with (cheap, mass produced) drones. And the US only has expensive drones that can be manufactured at a low rate.
>the US only has expensive drones
How do you think "Daddy" Warbucks got his name ;)
Ugh. my heart goes out to all the people in south and Southeast Asia who are now going to be paying substantially more for gas to heat up their food.
I am from India, and online gas booking is temporarily no longer available because waiting list is long now (we use gas cylinders, not piped gas here, and so have to book for cylinders to be delivered home when it becomes empty by use). Earlier, I used to get a cylinder within a day or two of booking, but now it is upto 2 weeks in my city. But I am well off, and can rely on electrical / induction stoves if need be. The really poor, who had been enticed to move away from firewoods to gas through free / highly subsidised cylinders are the ones feeling the real pain - they've gone back to using firewood now. Mid-day meal schemes in schools are also affected due to gas shortage and firewood is being used in some areas to ensure the poor students don't go hungry. Some restaurants and small-scale eateries that relied on gas for cooking too have gone back to using firewoods, because of government restrictions on gas usage.
I wonder what the overall effect of this war will be on global warming. If you put together the awful pollution caused by the battle itself and the reduced oil and gas production that follows, it could be a net benefit. Sure, it's a sarcastic pov, but I'm trying to cling to the positive here so be nice.
Not only is it pushing production down, but the resulting high prices are almost certainly going to cause permanently lower demand in certain sectors and countries ("demand destruction").
I would love to see a complete accounting in a year or so.
Not necessarily. It's going to massively drive up the demand for coal and wood consumption where it used to be (comparatively) less-polluting gas. We won't really know until 6-12 months have passed and we've collected the data.
Stop spreading nonsense. Israel is behind all this. Only ones to blames. Whatever Iran does is justified.
Taking into account that Iran's own oil facilities had been bombed earlier this week and that they had threatened to retaliate if this happens, what Iran does seems indeed fair play.
Before South Pars Iran bombed:
Agreed. I don't know whether to call it hypocrisy, delusion, bullshit, etc, but it is reidiculous that when Iran fights back the media and politicians act as if Iran started all this.
Example: the UK got a pat on the back for initially saying no to the US using their territory to launch bombing raids, and then later allowed it for "defensive" missions.
"Defensive"!?!
I'll punch you in the face, you punch me back, then when I punch you again I am only defending myself.
100%. And I say this as a very pro-western person. Countries have the right to retaliate. Iran is using what little leverage they have.
Of course they do, which is why Israel's retaliation was their prerogative too.
That being said, Hacker News isn't the place for politics so please can everyone go back to reddit if you're feeling emotional. Looking at you, juliusceasar.
Just to be sure we have your position right: Are you characterizing what Israel did as a retaliation? What specifically were they retaliating against?
Oh, stow it. Claim on you by the body politic doesn't end because you shove your fingers in your ears, or cover your eyes and go "Not listening! I see nothing!" Welcome to the real world, where grocery and fuel prices will be spiking because one particular group of morons decided to indulge in Nintendo warfare today. If you can't grow up enough to realize that your inaction and inattention drives these people's ability to get away with these things, you are part of the problem. Your luxury to abstain from the body politic is founded on the body politic not being suicidally aligned.
Is a tech forum the place to talk about it? Is there any point at all to segregate communities by topic if politics end up taking over anyway?
USA and Israel started it. USA does not get to blame the smaller country for a war its leadership wanted.
Second, no, "whatever Ira. Does is justified' is too much a blaket allowance. The Iranian regime does not get absolytion for everythijg just because it is in an illegal war USA started. They are plenty awful on their own.
But yes, similar Iranian infrastructure is targetted by USA and Israel. Not by Quatar.
USA leadership is completely compromised, both democrats and republicans. They're all paid by AIPAC.
And who has the videotape recordings taken by Epstein?
Seems to me it’s not very far fetched to believe it’s in the hands of the worlds most premiere spy agency, Mossad, who only needs to hint at revealing this compromising information to get what they want from American leadership. Plus of course their advanced offensive cyber attack capabilities.
Carrot & Stick.
> USA and Israel started it.
started current operation: yes. But its Iran who denies Israel right for existence, and funds/supports multiple forces with the same views.
Such confrontation would happen anyway, the question would it happen now, or in 5 years when Iran potentially obtain nuclear weapons.
There are two foundational events that set this conflict in motion:
1). The violent establishment of a settler ethnostate in a Muslim region in 1947 2). The deposition of the Shah in 1953
If you're going to talk about causes you might as well start there.
Muslims grabbed land by force thousand years ago, while killed every one who disagreed.
History is full of violence, I am talking about current time. It is current Iran's choice to not accept Israel existence, in contrast to many other Arabic countries who normalized relationships.
Constantly sending missiles and drones towards civilian buildings in Dubai and Doha is morally bankrupt and unjustifiable. It doesn't matter who UAE & Qatar are aligned with, they were at least a friend to Iran for many years.
At least they’re not bonbing girls schools.
I bet USA and Israel has caused more civilian deaths in this conflict than Iran.
Is what Israel does in Gaza morally bankrupt and unjustifiable?
This isn't whataboutism because I'm not trying to negate your point. Instead, I'm just curious if you apply the same standard to Israel/Gaza or if you think that in that case killing innocent people is justified.
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If you haven't already, look what Pete Hegseth (whose mother disowned him) had to say to the top US commanders about sparking armageddon. This is ultimate bullshit. Cosplaying assholes with captain hook style hangups.
In the words of the Qatari Energy Minister;
"I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that Qatar would be - Qatar and the region - in such an attack, especially from a brotherly Muslim country in the month of Ramadan, attacking us in this way,"
That's enough of a display of true leadership to put the ones in the US, Iran, and Israel to complete shame like absolute garbage just because of how bad they need to be thrown out.
Qatar are deeply interconnected with the American military industrial complex.
Good point, it's an oil kingdom that first got rich on dollars during the Arab Oil Embargo of the 1970's.
And it's been dollars even since, only more of them.
If you threw out the Qatari decision-makers though, it wouldn't have much positive impact compared to getting rid of the real stinkers around the world that are only getting worse.