"Discord Distances itself from Peter Thiel's Palantir Age Verification Firm" means jack shit if they're still doing business with them.
And Discord has approached this in such a monstrously awful way that I don't know what they could possibly say at this point to make me believe them.
I fully expect Discord will buddy-buddy right back up with some other Thiel-affiliated company if there is a separation if not go right back to them once the heat dies down.
To do the Simpsons quotes like suggested in the article, Discord picking age verification "third party providers" definitely looks like they park various vans across the street.
One of them didn't delete IDs properly and leaked them.
Now Peter Thiel's Age verification truck has been parked across the street for 2 weeks. How long does it take to deliver a pizza ?
They need to replace it with Flowers By Irene van ? Who wants to create that company and try to sell it ?
I'm dumbfounded that a big tech company that says they take age verification so seriously just subcontracts that part to this set of various subcontractor with no apparent vetting.
I do love Discord as a platform and I happily took subscriptions for me and some friends, but I don't understand who steers it.
Executives who focus on the financial side of things and do not care about correctness in operations are the ones steering lots of companies nowadays. Boeing is a good example/case study on how financialisation eats up companies from the inside by emphasising monetary results over actual engineering.
That's what gets me too. It feels so easy. Just don't store the source data. They usually say they don't, they claim it's deleted quickly or never saved to disk at all or other stuff and its always lies. Just don't save it and there's no attack vector. Same thing with plaintext passwords. The amount of password leak attacks I've seen in recent years is 0 (though I'm sure they're still around). Stored IDs and PII for verification is uncountable
I have two older coworkers in my workplace alone that had criminals make fraudulent unemployment claims in their names. Fortunately they noticed and stopped it quickly. Undoubtedly the information used came from data leaks.
Now all these sites are implementing face scans, which would be perfect for such criminals to harvest and use AI to create fake videos of you saying anything that suits them.
At what point does legislation step in, here? Because so far, it's only moved in the direction that worsens the issue.
The trick is that they delete the actual image of the face, but the embeddings (which can reconstruct the face anyway) are saved permanently onto their servers. You don't own your embeddings, and they never delete them.
It’s a network. You can move but will your community?
We are absolute slaves to network effects. How many things do you continue to use even though you hate them because everyone else also continues to use them even though most hate them?
Defeating the dragon of the network effect would be a great victory for human empowerment in the 21st century.
>Defeating the dragon of the network effect would be a great victory for human empowerment in the 21st century.
Creating the network effect was the greatest loss we had in the 21st century. We used to be able to use XMPP to talk to Google Hangouts, Facebook Messenger and all sorts, and they took it away, just so you'd have to use their shitty little program instead.
We have that today though - it's called Matrix. While other platforms aren't literally built upon it like Hangouts was in the beforetimes, it allows inter-op with more platforms. Whatsapp, Telegram, Discord, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Google Chat (née Google Hangouts)... and those are just the ones I'm using. The full list includes more [0]
We can disagree about what counts as good enough for the mass market in the modern era, whether normal people will actually use this vs whether normal people used XMPP's interop in 2005, and quibble about feature sets (video calls weren't initially supported in '05, and most bridges don't support them today), but for chatting with friends, you still only need one app - and because Matrix is an open standard, you can even change which app you want it to be.
Post script: I look forward to hearing about how terrible Matrix was, last time someone tried the (over-crowded) default server 12-18 months ago. The software dev community here will follow up and say that software cannot have gotten better since then, either.
Article title, which was a lot clearer than this one: "Discord Distances Itself From Age Verification Firm After Ties To Palantir’s Peter Thiel Surface"
Not sure why you changed it but it makes quite the difference to the meaning.
Don't forget teenagers can be extremely skilled technically. Plus they have a lot of time!
But you're on the right track.
I think of a solution like:
1. Browser does one-time age verification through 3rd party service, without disclosing any details about which sites you'll access.
2. Browser stores your age, signed by that service.
3. When a site requests it the browser passes that signed age over. The site simply has to check if it has a valid signature by a trusted authority's public key.
The browser could even use Palantir in this example - but they would never get any data about what users are accessing.
My passport has biometrics, the government knows everything about me already through the tax system which is "digital". All my other interactions with the government are through digital services.
What exactly would a digital ID allow a government to do that it can't already? Apart from solve all the issues with having to provide scans of (my already digital) ID documents to every bank/solicitor/mortgage broker/estate agent/etc i interact with, where in many my personal ID documents probably sit on a company file share or some random persons One Drive.
A government digital ID with a one-time code to complete verification would solve all of this nonsense.
On control, again, what possible super power would a "digital ID" give a government that it doesn’t have already to control you?
The browser could also emit the age, which sites could check to block, and parents could manage via parental controls.
But that's no fun: can't assure control of the children (bad), monetization (even worse) not share with government (the worst, given the current administration).
True, and that'd be the best method by far. A European politician recently proposed this.[0] The issue is that a single service can't just implement this. If I'm a service and I need age verification, I need something that I can implement by myself.
> The issue is that a single service can't just implement this. If I'm a service and I need age verification, I need something that I can implement by myself.
I don't understand. A simple if age<18 check is quite a lot easier to implement than doing age verification yourself, or even shopping it out to some other "partner".
k-id, owned by epic games, which is one of the age verification companies used by discord, already does something like what you proposed. of course, our favourite infosec twitter zoomers already dissected it. https://github.com/xyzeva/k-id-age-verifier
Even a face scan is a hard no for me. I have no desire to make it easy for companies to start linking me (the person) to anywhere else, directly via my face metadata.
children have access to 4chan and ChatGPT. hacking the macOS kernel driver to disable the LED that says the camera is on should be out of the technical realm of children, but, well, it happened and was abused by children against other children.
Notably, by doing this Discord lied in their initial announcement. They originally said [1] that all processing would be on-device, but that's not true for users subject to this "experiment".
> "By immediately I mean we send it to k-ID who said that's what they do."
People have already validated this fyi. When k-ID was first added you could send a bogus age result to discord from your local device, which probably still works. There's no evidence your facial scans leave the device.
> "By that I mean they partnered with Persona to do the actual verification."
Which isn't true, it was a UK-only experiment being run for a small subset of users, which has now been discontinued.
I get people are outraged, but this is sensationalism at best.
After the last screwup, by the same company, why would you trust the data to stay on your device?
> Of the accounts impacted globally, we have identified approximately 70,000 users that may have had government-ID photos exposed, which our vendor used to review age-related appeals.
And by same company, I don't mean discord. I mean Persona.
was it “uk only” or was it the only place that required them to notify users theyre being experimented on?
we know US law allows tech companies to experiment on us without notifying at all. facebook was caught experimenting on users to see if a timeline full of sad posts would cause the users to become depressed.
im guessing his companies will get ahold of discord users data in most other countries. i’d be shocked if he only wants data from a tiny number of UK people.
Discord probably still claims they weren't hacked. How they handle incidents like this matters to a lot of folks, and that's what this is about.
3 months after a major breach, how could anybody possibly believe that they fixed all their wrong organizational policies and security measurements within that time, while still not even acknowledging the incident?
I don't want to defend Discord, but that's just not true. That announcement did not say all processing would be on-device, only when you use the face scan.
> Video selfies for facial age estimation never leave a user’s device
> Facial scans never leave your device. Discord and our vendor partners never receive it.
Meanwhile they're also clear that uploaded IDs do get sent to "partners":
> Quick deletion: Identity documents submitted to our vendor partners are deleted quickly— in most cases, immediately after age confirmation.
Ah, I assumed that Persona is being used for face scans too. I haven't been able to find a screenshot of the actual flow, but based on this article [1] with a screenshot of the message UK users are receiving, I suspect they are:
>The information you submit will be temporarily stored for up to 7 days, then deleted. For ID document verification, all details are blurred except your photo and date of birth... [emphasis mine]
To me, that implies that Persona is/was doing more than just IDs.
The risk in effect is that every message sent on Discord will make its way to Palantir with copy of your ID. This is not a risk that any user should accept. Discord fooled its users once, and it should not be trusted to not fool them again.
And because of how broadly and frequently people use Discord, it will be super useful when correlating with other data feeds. That might be even more valuable than the discord activity itself.
I very hesitantly used discord occasionally because some projects I wanted to keep up with moved there
I gave up a few times since I kept getting autobanned by a broken algorithm (i.e., based on my ip or phone number, not anything I'd said) until I contacted their devs and they manually fixed it.
Obviously, I am never going to consider using discord again after this shit-tsunami. Back to irc and signal groups.
Not sure why you're being down voted but the answer is yes, it is the same Peter Thiel who gives lectures on Greta Thunberg being the literal anti-christ and if the down voters think you might be exaggerating or misleading them I encourage them to search this up.
Edit - I searched to refresh myself, ok he didn't say she was the literal antichrist. He said she's literally a legionnaire for the literal antichrist. I cannot stress enough that he was very clear that he was not using these terms figuratively, I mean "literal" in the literal sense of the term.
Yeah, he definitely has gone off the rails lately with all the talk about the antichrist being a literal existing being with emissaries on earth. I haven't been watching his stuff but the little I've seen was unhinged.
for which Gretta is the litteral, antidote, as she has NO money, or such vanishingly small personal funds as to be of no account, yet hiches rides on sailboats to show up and berate parliments in there well worn lairs, her speach to the british parliment bieng a clear sign that she wont back down , and much worse, has such impecable manners that she mistook there talking and joking to be a technical mallfunction with her microphone.
And now after her capture by the ZGF (zionist genocide force), and stare down with there chief torturer/jailer, she has vanished from all major media.
So that Gretta and that Peter, are in fact
polar oposites in almost every sense.
I don’t have a strong opinion on Thunberg herself, but no, truths aren’t always in the middle. Thiel is clearly a complete fruitcake, so it does not make sense to triangulate based on any position that he holds.
Oh completely. I think you missed my point. Divisive narratives are almost entirely always wrong. The truth generally sits way away from the fruitcakes somewhere in the middle.
The problem these days is we give fruitcakes a stage. Or they buy one.
Right, but if you are using Thiel as a point of reference, you’re going to find a midpoint between sanity and insanity, which isn’t the truth. Say what you will about Thunberg, but she is not insane in the way that Thiel is.
She's not exactly what or who she purports to be. Definitely not the antichrist however. But if we want to fix this shithole of a planet we should stop listening to both of them.
Again, you're suggesting an equivalence between someone who has strong views and someone who's simply disconnected from reality. Thunberg is right to be concerned about the environment. You could argue that she's too concerned (maybe). Thiel is not right to be worried about the antichrist and Armageddon.
We don't need to find some kind of mythical middle ground between people who are too worried about the antichrist and people who aren't sufficiently worried about the antichrist. Rather, we should just set eschatological eccentrics aside when it comes to orienting our political outlook.
It’s not the environmental campaigning that’s the issue. I am very much aligned with that. In fact I’ve done a fair bit of that myself and you’ll occasionally find me at demonstrations. I think most people are well aligned with that.
It’s the deep dive into geopolitics which is now being used to discredit her that is the problem. There’s things you don’t touch with a pole and she’s been all over them. That’s why the media have shut up about her. There isn’t universal support or consensus there. She did a lot of damage to the environmental cause getting involved.
That makes her a pariah on all causes.
The mid ground is a rational scientific approach and consistent pressure and staying within the rails that are your primary cause.
Garry is a good person and smearing people over their church is a disgusting thing to do.
I am now going to sit here and listen to this talk because I guarantee it's not saying what you think it's saying. And I don't want to listen to it. It's not a topic that interests me. But I guarantee you are completely distorting what was stated in that topic for maximum effect, entirely motivated by left-wing politics.
I imagine you are not done listening to them yet as the total over 8 hrs. But my research is showing that OPs are largely correct. Theil gave several talks to his church where he did in fact say these things.
In your post you state you are ‘not sure’, but also that that the poster is ‘wrong’.
> My thesis is that in the 17th, 18th century, the antichrist would have been a Dr Strangelove, a scientist who did all this sort of evil crazy science. In the 21st century, the antichrist is a luddite who wants to stop all science. It’s someone like Greta or Eliezer.
Sure, he eventually goes on to say stuff like..
> One of the ways these things always get reported is, I denounce Greta as an antichrist. And I want to be very clear: Greta is, I mean she’s maybe sort of a type or a shadow of an antichrist of a sort that would be tempting. But I don’t want to flatter her too much. So with Greta, you shouldn’t take her as the antichrist for sure. With AOC, you can choose whether or not you want to believe this disclaimer that I just gave
But I don’t think this is the win that you might think it is. The dude is a loon.
Going by your comment history any criticism of Thiel and the administration is just left wing politics, but hard to hear you over the sound of drowning yourself with kool-aid.
Weird that you seem to support this administration that Thiel is very much associated with but find it offensive when there's a very clear association between Thiel and Garry. He's just going to this specific church to pray or whatever? Paying no mind to the anti-christ talk happening next door. I do hope this is the last breaths of religion in the western world, it needs to die.
"yes I'm right. Not sure why you are being downvoted. Do your own research"
Does research and now admits that he wasn't right, and understands why he and others were being down voted and hopefully learns from this and moves on.
Kudos for the edit and honesty: it's rare to see learning actually happen in fiery threads! I've been in your shoes and learning and change is possible.
You're entirely motivated by politics here. Everything is backwards reasoning from that. You don't like the guy because he is right wing and you are not right wing.
Despite the fact that you would call the police on a trespasser if they took up residence in your home without permission, or even your yard without your permission, you don't believe in borders or any kind of concept of them. Therefore, you don't like ICE.
Got it.
It's incredibly hypocritical but I understand it.
And anyone that helps ice is bad and anyone that is right-wing is bad and therefore Peter Thiel is bad and therefore everything he says you can distort and weaponize through a filter of "he's a Nazi".
Let's just be clear here:
Virtually every country on the planet enforces their borders and kicks people out if they are overstaying their visas or have snuck in without permission. If you have a problem with ICE, you have a problem with borders and national sovereignty. And if you still believe in those things but still don't like it, then you don't understand game theory. If someone can simply jump a fence and then be allowed to stay then everyone will jump the fence.
If someone is saying that there are literal actuql existing legionnaires of the literal actual existing antichrist, and X person is one of them, it's not the "X person is one of them" part that I have an issue with.
Maybe you can help me out, I listened to him talk about this and I couldn't make head-nor-tail of what he was trying to say. It feels like he's so tied up in concepts and metaphors and similes and allegories it's impossible to tell specifically what he is asserting to be true. If you could explain to me like I was five I'd be grateful. Not looking for an argument.
One of the most destructive ideas of the last century in the West (particularly the US) has been the idea that private industry is a better replacement for the government to provide services.
We see this with Internet and telecoms service where municipal broadband dominates national ISPs at a fraction of the cost. We see the sell-off of utilities and water, which just leads to massive price hikes, so much so that private equity is getting in on utilities because it's a captive market [1]. All these privatization schemes (including so-called public-private "partnerships") are simply schemes to transfer wealth from the government to the wealthy. And the real problem is a huge number of people who will never benefit from any of this think this is a good idea.
The only entity who can be trusted for identity and age verification is the government. This is how it works in China [2]. I can already hear the cries of "we can't trust the government with that". We already do. Who do you think issues drivers licenses and SSNs?
Another like objection: "the government can monitor your activity". Um, they already do [3][4]. In some cases they're doing this voluntarily. An administrative subpoena is not enforceable. That requires a court order. Yet Google, as just one example, complied anyway.
A government, unlike private corporations, is accountable to its citizenry.
Let me give you a concrete example of how disturbing this all is. Leon Black was the CEO of Apollo Global Management, a private equity firm that owned Shutterfly. Shutterly owns Lifetouch, which is a company that manages school photos for children for a huge number of schools in the US. Leon Black has links to Jeffrey Epstein [5].
As of now, there's no concrete accusation of wrongdoing here or of information (such as stored photos) being passed to Epstein or affiliates. But do you want an unaccountable private company owned an Epstein affiliate having the names, school, age and photos of your children? Yeah, me neither, which is why now a bunch of schools are distancing themselves from Lifetouch. Investigations are ongoing.
As for Discord even doing age verification, there are two angles. The legal one is easy to dispense with. Countries like the UK require it. I'm surprised Discord escaped the Australia under 16 social media ban. I expect that to change. There's going to be more of this. And I understand why. Predators inhabit these spaces and Discord, unlike "public" social media platforms, seem to have way less monitoring and scrutiny of what goes on there.
The second angle is should you be able to remain anonymous online? Call it the ethical angle. Reasonable people can disagree here. I just don't think it matters because there will be increasing pressure for Discord and others toc omply with legislation.
"One sticking point, however, is who’s backing the company: Peter Thiel, the cofounder of ICE-approved surveillance firm Palantir."
This article is entirely motivated by left-wing politics. It's that simple. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of pretending it's about privacy.
If a company that wasn't owned by a guy that is associated as right-wing was doing the same thing, this article wouldn't be sitting here.
The Epstein guilt by association parts? Yeah, that creep was a hyper networker and leveraged that as a tactic.
And in SV, nobody is in those files more than Reid Hoffman.
He didn't just go to the island dozens of times he went to the ranch.
But he donates money to the Democratic Party and is anti-Trump so we don't see articles on HN smearing everything connected to him, do we?
It's all politics. All of this.
It is a constant stream of political activism masquerading as journalism. It's like this all over the SV tech space.
"Discord Distances itself from Peter Thiel's Palantir Age Verification Firm" means jack shit if they're still doing business with them.
And Discord has approached this in such a monstrously awful way that I don't know what they could possibly say at this point to make me believe them.
I fully expect Discord will buddy-buddy right back up with some other Thiel-affiliated company if there is a separation if not go right back to them once the heat dies down.
To do the Simpsons quotes like suggested in the article, Discord picking age verification "third party providers" definitely looks like they park various vans across the street. One of them didn't delete IDs properly and leaked them.
Now Peter Thiel's Age verification truck has been parked across the street for 2 weeks. How long does it take to deliver a pizza ?
They need to replace it with Flowers By Irene van ? Who wants to create that company and try to sell it ?
I'm dumbfounded that a big tech company that says they take age verification so seriously just subcontracts that part to this set of various subcontractor with no apparent vetting.
I do love Discord as a platform and I happily took subscriptions for me and some friends, but I don't understand who steers it.
Executives who focus on the financial side of things and do not care about correctness in operations are the ones steering lots of companies nowadays. Boeing is a good example/case study on how financialisation eats up companies from the inside by emphasising monetary results over actual engineering.
Ding ding ding. Matter of time, this is merely damage control until the news cycle fades into the next.
Who cares where they outsource the age verification to?
They have no business keeping my ID scan or face in any case. Because there's an 120% chance they'll end up on a public S3 bucket.
That's what gets me too. It feels so easy. Just don't store the source data. They usually say they don't, they claim it's deleted quickly or never saved to disk at all or other stuff and its always lies. Just don't save it and there's no attack vector. Same thing with plaintext passwords. The amount of password leak attacks I've seen in recent years is 0 (though I'm sure they're still around). Stored IDs and PII for verification is uncountable
I have two older coworkers in my workplace alone that had criminals make fraudulent unemployment claims in their names. Fortunately they noticed and stopped it quickly. Undoubtedly the information used came from data leaks.
Now all these sites are implementing face scans, which would be perfect for such criminals to harvest and use AI to create fake videos of you saying anything that suits them.
At what point does legislation step in, here? Because so far, it's only moved in the direction that worsens the issue.
The trick is that they delete the actual image of the face, but the embeddings (which can reconstruct the face anyway) are saved permanently onto their servers. You don't own your embeddings, and they never delete them.
> Because there's an 120% chance they'll end up on a public S3 bucket.
They already ended up there: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8jmzd972leo
That’s only 100% tho
They did test the water, they will be back at it again. We have seen this over and over. If you use that bloated software, time to move.
It’s a network. You can move but will your community?
We are absolute slaves to network effects. How many things do you continue to use even though you hate them because everyone else also continues to use them even though most hate them?
Defeating the dragon of the network effect would be a great victory for human empowerment in the 21st century.
>Defeating the dragon of the network effect would be a great victory for human empowerment in the 21st century.
Creating the network effect was the greatest loss we had in the 21st century. We used to be able to use XMPP to talk to Google Hangouts, Facebook Messenger and all sorts, and they took it away, just so you'd have to use their shitty little program instead.
We have that today though - it's called Matrix. While other platforms aren't literally built upon it like Hangouts was in the beforetimes, it allows inter-op with more platforms. Whatsapp, Telegram, Discord, Facebook Messenger, Signal, Google Chat (née Google Hangouts)... and those are just the ones I'm using. The full list includes more [0]
We can disagree about what counts as good enough for the mass market in the modern era, whether normal people will actually use this vs whether normal people used XMPP's interop in 2005, and quibble about feature sets (video calls weren't initially supported in '05, and most bridges don't support them today), but for chatting with friends, you still only need one app - and because Matrix is an open standard, you can even change which app you want it to be.
Post script: I look forward to hearing about how terrible Matrix was, last time someone tried the (over-crowded) default server 12-18 months ago. The software dev community here will follow up and say that software cannot have gotten better since then, either.
[0] https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/
Hindsight is 20/20. We didn’t realize just how powerful it would be. Same with addictive stuff like engagement maxxing algorithms and infinite scroll.
Now the new challenge is to figure out how to put those dogs down.
This always happens.
Article title, which was a lot clearer than this one: "Discord Distances Itself From Age Verification Firm After Ties To Palantir’s Peter Thiel Surface"
Not sure why you changed it but it makes quite the difference to the meaning.
That's too long of a title for a HN submission, i think.
Ok but this title is literally fake news.
Feel free to suggest a better one that can fit into 80 characters!
"Discord Distances Itself From Age Verification Firm After Palantir ties"?
No. It’s literally has exactly the same meaning.
Can't we just do this age verification locally on-device? Just some WASM to run a small AI model, which scans face+ID.
I know it'll be easier to bypass, but that does not matter. We're trying to stop children, not adults with technical skill.
It's even easier to just not do it at all
Don't forget teenagers can be extremely skilled technically. Plus they have a lot of time!
But you're on the right track.
I think of a solution like:
1. Browser does one-time age verification through 3rd party service, without disclosing any details about which sites you'll access.
2. Browser stores your age, signed by that service.
3. When a site requests it the browser passes that signed age over. The site simply has to check if it has a valid signature by a trusted authority's public key.
The browser could even use Palantir in this example - but they would never get any data about what users are accessing.
It's not about age verification but control and digital id.
Doesn't everyone have a digital ID already?
My passport has biometrics, the government knows everything about me already through the tax system which is "digital". All my other interactions with the government are through digital services.
What exactly would a digital ID allow a government to do that it can't already? Apart from solve all the issues with having to provide scans of (my already digital) ID documents to every bank/solicitor/mortgage broker/estate agent/etc i interact with, where in many my personal ID documents probably sit on a company file share or some random persons One Drive.
A government digital ID with a one-time code to complete verification would solve all of this nonsense.
On control, again, what possible super power would a "digital ID" give a government that it doesn’t have already to control you?
Restricting content you access, or using that to shape what is offered to you on the internet.
The browser could also emit the age, which sites could check to block, and parents could manage via parental controls.
But that's no fun: can't assure control of the children (bad), monetization (even worse) not share with government (the worst, given the current administration).
True, and that'd be the best method by far. A European politician recently proposed this.[0] The issue is that a single service can't just implement this. If I'm a service and I need age verification, I need something that I can implement by myself.
[0] https://democrats.eu/en/protecting-minors-online-without-vio...
> The issue is that a single service can't just implement this. If I'm a service and I need age verification, I need something that I can implement by myself.
I don't understand. A simple if age<18 check is quite a lot easier to implement than doing age verification yourself, or even shopping it out to some other "partner".
k-id, owned by epic games, which is one of the age verification companies used by discord, already does something like what you proposed. of course, our favourite infosec twitter zoomers already dissected it. https://github.com/xyzeva/k-id-age-verifier
Is a face scan accurate enough to do that with 100% accuracy?
Even a face scan is a hard no for me. I have no desire to make it easy for companies to start linking me (the person) to anywhere else, directly via my face metadata.
They are not trying to stop children, they are tying to vet verify and collect information on anyone adult or kid.
children have access to 4chan and ChatGPT. hacking the macOS kernel driver to disable the LED that says the camera is on should be out of the technical realm of children, but, well, it happened and was abused by children against other children.
Notably, by doing this Discord lied in their initial announcement. They originally said [1] that all processing would be on-device, but that's not true for users subject to this "experiment".
1: https://discord.com/press-releases/discord-launches-teen-by-...
As Argento Dragone said in the Kotaku comments:
"Face scanning is used to do ID verification on your device and then deleted immediately."
"By immediately I mean we send it to k-ID who said that's what they do."
"By that I mean they partnered with Persona to do the actual verification."
"Persona clarified that by 'immediately' they mean 'after seven days.'"
"And given their ties to Palantir, it's probably fine. You trust us, right?"
> "By immediately I mean we send it to k-ID who said that's what they do."
People have already validated this fyi. When k-ID was first added you could send a bogus age result to discord from your local device, which probably still works. There's no evidence your facial scans leave the device.
> "By that I mean they partnered with Persona to do the actual verification."
Which isn't true, it was a UK-only experiment being run for a small subset of users, which has now been discontinued.
I get people are outraged, but this is sensationalism at best.
After the last screwup, by the same company, why would you trust the data to stay on your device?
> Of the accounts impacted globally, we have identified approximately 70,000 users that may have had government-ID photos exposed, which our vendor used to review age-related appeals.
And by same company, I don't mean discord. I mean Persona.
https://discord.com/press-releases/update-on-security-incide...
Trust is fragile.
was it “uk only” or was it the only place that required them to notify users theyre being experimented on?
we know US law allows tech companies to experiment on us without notifying at all. facebook was caught experimenting on users to see if a timeline full of sad posts would cause the users to become depressed.
im guessing his companies will get ahold of discord users data in most other countries. i’d be shocked if he only wants data from a tiny number of UK people.
What good does this do for people who have already had their faces enrolled in Thiel's venture now?
"oh sorry, we said it's local but forgot to tell you about the experiment that sends you data to Thiel"
Enter into Google: Discord breach october 2025
Discord probably still claims they weren't hacked. How they handle incidents like this matters to a lot of folks, and that's what this is about.
3 months after a major breach, how could anybody possibly believe that they fixed all their wrong organizational policies and security measurements within that time, while still not even acknowledging the incident?
And by "Deleted immediately" they might mean they delete the image but keep the hash.
I don't want to defend Discord, but that's just not true. That announcement did not say all processing would be on-device, only when you use the face scan.
> Video selfies for facial age estimation never leave a user’s device
> Facial scans never leave your device. Discord and our vendor partners never receive it.
Meanwhile they're also clear that uploaded IDs do get sent to "partners":
> Quick deletion: Identity documents submitted to our vendor partners are deleted quickly— in most cases, immediately after age confirmation.
Ah, I assumed that Persona is being used for face scans too. I haven't been able to find a screenshot of the actual flow, but based on this article [1] with a screenshot of the message UK users are receiving, I suspect they are:
>The information you submit will be temporarily stored for up to 7 days, then deleted. For ID document verification, all details are blurred except your photo and date of birth... [emphasis mine]
To me, that implies that Persona is/was doing more than just IDs.
[1] https://www.eurogamer.net/discord-advises-uk-users-that-they...
The risk in effect is that every message sent on Discord will make its way to Palantir with copy of your ID. This is not a risk that any user should accept. Discord fooled its users once, and it should not be trusted to not fool them again.
And because of how broadly and frequently people use Discord, it will be super useful when correlating with other data feeds. That might be even more valuable than the discord activity itself.
Who owns Discord?
I very hesitantly used discord occasionally because some projects I wanted to keep up with moved there
I gave up a few times since I kept getting autobanned by a broken algorithm (i.e., based on my ip or phone number, not anything I'd said) until I contacted their devs and they manually fixed it.
Obviously, I am never going to consider using discord again after this shit-tsunami. Back to irc and signal groups.
Nobody believes that.
Is this the same Peter Thiel who gives lectures on Greta Thunberg being the literal anti-christ?
Not sure why you're being down voted but the answer is yes, it is the same Peter Thiel who gives lectures on Greta Thunberg being the literal anti-christ and if the down voters think you might be exaggerating or misleading them I encourage them to search this up.
Edit - I searched to refresh myself, ok he didn't say she was the literal antichrist. He said she's literally a legionnaire for the literal antichrist. I cannot stress enough that he was very clear that he was not using these terms figuratively, I mean "literal" in the literal sense of the term.
Yeah, he definitely has gone off the rails lately with all the talk about the antichrist being a literal existing being with emissaries on earth. I haven't been watching his stuff but the little I've seen was unhinged.
Thiel lost the plot long ago, just like his PayPal buddy did. The money went to their heads.
300 years into the future some historian will publish a book: "The downfall of the USA traced back to the PayPal Mafia".
for which Gretta is the litteral, antidote, as she has NO money, or such vanishingly small personal funds as to be of no account, yet hiches rides on sailboats to show up and berate parliments in there well worn lairs, her speach to the british parliment bieng a clear sign that she wont back down , and much worse, has such impecable manners that she mistook there talking and joking to be a technical mallfunction with her microphone. And now after her capture by the ZGF (zionist genocide force), and stare down with there chief torturer/jailer, she has vanished from all major media. So that Gretta and that Peter, are in fact polar oposites in almost every sense.
This almost as bonkers as Thiel. Just the other way around.
Truths are always somewhere in the middle.
I don’t have a strong opinion on Thunberg herself, but no, truths aren’t always in the middle. Thiel is clearly a complete fruitcake, so it does not make sense to triangulate based on any position that he holds.
Oh completely. I think you missed my point. Divisive narratives are almost entirely always wrong. The truth generally sits way away from the fruitcakes somewhere in the middle.
The problem these days is we give fruitcakes a stage. Or they buy one.
Right, but if you are using Thiel as a point of reference, you’re going to find a midpoint between sanity and insanity, which isn’t the truth. Say what you will about Thunberg, but she is not insane in the way that Thiel is.
She's not exactly what or who she purports to be. Definitely not the antichrist however. But if we want to fix this shithole of a planet we should stop listening to both of them.
Again, you're suggesting an equivalence between someone who has strong views and someone who's simply disconnected from reality. Thunberg is right to be concerned about the environment. You could argue that she's too concerned (maybe). Thiel is not right to be worried about the antichrist and Armageddon.
We don't need to find some kind of mythical middle ground between people who are too worried about the antichrist and people who aren't sufficiently worried about the antichrist. Rather, we should just set eschatological eccentrics aside when it comes to orienting our political outlook.
It’s not the environmental campaigning that’s the issue. I am very much aligned with that. In fact I’ve done a fair bit of that myself and you’ll occasionally find me at demonstrations. I think most people are well aligned with that.
It’s the deep dive into geopolitics which is now being used to discredit her that is the problem. There’s things you don’t touch with a pole and she’s been all over them. That’s why the media have shut up about her. There isn’t universal support or consensus there. She did a lot of damage to the environmental cause getting involved.
That makes her a pariah on all causes.
The mid ground is a rational scientific approach and consistent pressure and staying within the rails that are your primary cause.
Lately?
"I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." 2009
He is just executing on this, and some of religious technocratic nonsense beliefs just leaked a bit.
And should not forget that Garry Tan the ycombinatior CEO attends the same church where Thiel held his Greta antichrist talk.
Garry is a good person and smearing people over their church is a disgusting thing to do.
I am now going to sit here and listen to this talk because I guarantee it's not saying what you think it's saying. And I don't want to listen to it. It's not a topic that interests me. But I guarantee you are completely distorting what was stated in that topic for maximum effect, entirely motivated by left-wing politics.
I imagine you are not done listening to them yet as the total over 8 hrs. But my research is showing that OPs are largely correct. Theil gave several talks to his church where he did in fact say these things.
In your post you state you are ‘not sure’, but also that that the poster is ‘wrong’.
> My thesis is that in the 17th, 18th century, the antichrist would have been a Dr Strangelove, a scientist who did all this sort of evil crazy science. In the 21st century, the antichrist is a luddite who wants to stop all science. It’s someone like Greta or Eliezer.
Sure, he eventually goes on to say stuff like..
> One of the ways these things always get reported is, I denounce Greta as an antichrist. And I want to be very clear: Greta is, I mean she’s maybe sort of a type or a shadow of an antichrist of a sort that would be tempting. But I don’t want to flatter her too much. So with Greta, you shouldn’t take her as the antichrist for sure. With AOC, you can choose whether or not you want to believe this disclaimer that I just gave
But I don’t think this is the win that you might think it is. The dude is a loon.
Going by your comment history any criticism of Thiel and the administration is just left wing politics, but hard to hear you over the sound of drowning yourself with kool-aid.
Weird that you seem to support this administration that Thiel is very much associated with but find it offensive when there's a very clear association between Thiel and Garry. He's just going to this specific church to pray or whatever? Paying no mind to the anti-christ talk happening next door. I do hope this is the last breaths of religion in the western world, it needs to die.
"yes I'm right. Not sure why you are being downvoted. Do your own research"
Does research and now admits that he wasn't right, and understands why he and others were being down voted and hopefully learns from this and moves on.
Kudos for the edit and honesty: it's rare to see learning actually happen in fiery threads! I've been in your shoes and learning and change is possible.
I don't know, man. How much of a distinction do you want to make between "literal anti-christ" and "literal legionnaire for the literal anti-christ"?
You're entirely motivated by politics here. Everything is backwards reasoning from that. You don't like the guy because he is right wing and you are not right wing.
Despite the fact that you would call the police on a trespasser if they took up residence in your home without permission, or even your yard without your permission, you don't believe in borders or any kind of concept of them. Therefore, you don't like ICE.
Got it.
It's incredibly hypocritical but I understand it.
And anyone that helps ice is bad and anyone that is right-wing is bad and therefore Peter Thiel is bad and therefore everything he says you can distort and weaponize through a filter of "he's a Nazi".
Let's just be clear here:
Virtually every country on the planet enforces their borders and kicks people out if they are overstaying their visas or have snuck in without permission. If you have a problem with ICE, you have a problem with borders and national sovereignty. And if you still believe in those things but still don't like it, then you don't understand game theory. If someone can simply jump a fence and then be allowed to stay then everyone will jump the fence.
Do you just read the headlines because that isn't what he said.
He said that people like Greta are legionnaires of the Antichrist. Which is not "Greta is the literal anti-christ".
Do you have any idea of the context of what the whole point was? If not, perhaps you should find out before you talk rubbish.
Do you know what he means by "Antichrist" or are you taking the least generous interpretation you can because you don't like the man.
If someone is saying that there are literal actuql existing legionnaires of the literal actual existing antichrist, and X person is one of them, it's not the "X person is one of them" part that I have an issue with.
The issue you have is that "literal" is doing all the work for you.
What work is it doing? He believes these things literally, that the antichrist exists like Taylor Swift exists.
Maybe you can help me out, I listened to him talk about this and I couldn't make head-nor-tail of what he was trying to say. It feels like he's so tied up in concepts and metaphors and similes and allegories it's impossible to tell specifically what he is asserting to be true. If you could explain to me like I was five I'd be grateful. Not looking for an argument.
Is this the ‘oh he was just joshing about, he didn’t really mean what he said’ defence?
No. Read it again.
so he said she’s the literal legionnaire of the antichrist?
that doesn’t really sound a whole lot better.
"The insane person didn't say _that_ insane thing, they said a _different_ insane thing!"
I mean, not sure it helps much.
I don’t see how that’s any less insane.
Are you one of those that say that trump is doing 5d chess?
seems you are the one with a rent free room
You are seeing quotes where there are none.
Every billionaire has massive mental health issues.
One of the most destructive ideas of the last century in the West (particularly the US) has been the idea that private industry is a better replacement for the government to provide services.
We see this with Internet and telecoms service where municipal broadband dominates national ISPs at a fraction of the cost. We see the sell-off of utilities and water, which just leads to massive price hikes, so much so that private equity is getting in on utilities because it's a captive market [1]. All these privatization schemes (including so-called public-private "partnerships") are simply schemes to transfer wealth from the government to the wealthy. And the real problem is a huge number of people who will never benefit from any of this think this is a good idea.
The only entity who can be trusted for identity and age verification is the government. This is how it works in China [2]. I can already hear the cries of "we can't trust the government with that". We already do. Who do you think issues drivers licenses and SSNs?
Another like objection: "the government can monitor your activity". Um, they already do [3][4]. In some cases they're doing this voluntarily. An administrative subpoena is not enforceable. That requires a court order. Yet Google, as just one example, complied anyway.
A government, unlike private corporations, is accountable to its citizenry.
Let me give you a concrete example of how disturbing this all is. Leon Black was the CEO of Apollo Global Management, a private equity firm that owned Shutterfly. Shutterly owns Lifetouch, which is a company that manages school photos for children for a huge number of schools in the US. Leon Black has links to Jeffrey Epstein [5].
As of now, there's no concrete accusation of wrongdoing here or of information (such as stored photos) being passed to Epstein or affiliates. But do you want an unaccountable private company owned an Epstein affiliate having the names, school, age and photos of your children? Yeah, me neither, which is why now a bunch of schools are distancing themselves from Lifetouch. Investigations are ongoing.
As for Discord even doing age verification, there are two angles. The legal one is easy to dispense with. Countries like the UK require it. I'm surprised Discord escaped the Australia under 16 social media ban. I expect that to change. There's going to be more of this. And I understand why. Predators inhabit these spaces and Discord, unlike "public" social media platforms, seem to have way less monitoring and scrutiny of what goes on there.
The second angle is should you be able to remain anonymous online? Call it the ethical angle. Reasonable people can disagree here. I just don't think it matters because there will be increasing pressure for Discord and others toc omply with legislation.
[1]: https://jacobin.com/2025/08/private-equity-minnesota-power-t...
[2]: https://appinchina.co/blog/the-complete-guide-to-chinas-age-...
[3]: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/13/technology/dhs-anti-ice-s...
[4]: https://techcrunch.com/2026/02/10/google-sent-personal-and-f...
[5]: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/02/13/lifeto...
Too late. Trust is gone.
Not trusting should be you're default stance. Then you can be pleasantly surprised when they do the right thing.
"Distances itself" lol what does that even mean? Did they step back from the admin console or something?
Oh, the irony of Peter Thiel being involved in age verification, after lunching with Epstein (post-conviction).
And given his penchant for information control, I dont doubt he knew everything that was going on.
"One sticking point, however, is who’s backing the company: Peter Thiel, the cofounder of ICE-approved surveillance firm Palantir."
This article is entirely motivated by left-wing politics. It's that simple. I just wish they would come out and say it instead of pretending it's about privacy.
If a company that wasn't owned by a guy that is associated as right-wing was doing the same thing, this article wouldn't be sitting here.
The Epstein guilt by association parts? Yeah, that creep was a hyper networker and leveraged that as a tactic.
And in SV, nobody is in those files more than Reid Hoffman.
He didn't just go to the island dozens of times he went to the ranch.
But he donates money to the Democratic Party and is anti-Trump so we don't see articles on HN smearing everything connected to him, do we?
It's all politics. All of this.
It is a constant stream of political activism masquerading as journalism. It's like this all over the SV tech space.
You should seriously consider believing Mr. Thiel when he named the company Palantir.