Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair. Now, that pair must meet much stricter criteria to be suitable, such as Category 5 (for 100Mbit) or Category 5e (1000Mbit ie Gigabit) - but it really is just twisted pair cable, merely a tighter specification than your phone.
Suppose you are a sparky (electrician) and you have some jobs where you are to install telephone connections, some where you put in "Ethernet" (presumably 100baseT would be fine) and some they specifically want you to wire for Gigabit.
You could go to your wholesaler and buy a reel of Cat3 phone cable, a reel of Cat5 100baseT Ethernet, and a third reel of Cat 5e Gigabit cable, and take the right one for each job. So long as you do this flawlessly you can probably save a few pounds every year by using a slightly cheaper cable for some jobs.
Or, you can buy one reel of Cat5e and use that for all these jobs and since it's the same reel you can't have the wrong one and don't need to check paperwork to know you've put the correct cable in a duct etc. Thought that was a phone line but now the client insists it's data? No problem, they're the exact same cable, just smile and agree.
When I bought the place where I live now I wanted GigE to this desk, even though the DSL comes into a different room. I didn't love the idea of cutting holes in walls but I was resigned to maybe needing that, except there's a phone extension in this room (like the author says, we do love phone extensions) and so that room the DSL comes into has a twisted pair to here. I opened up the box, and I'm like huh, that's Cat5e, and sure enough this entire building was wired with Cat5e because like I said, why not, it's basically the same cable, why carry a separate reel?
So I changed the face plates from telephone to Ethernet, and I'm done.
I had the same thing in the house I bought, it was a nice surprise… there were 6 different phone jacks around the house in great locations for Ethernet (WiFi access points or just for a computer), and they all led down to the furnace room where they attached to a punch-down panel (basically they were all spliced into each other.)
To my surprise they were all cat5 cables. With the house being built in 2003 this was surprisingly forward-looking.
I capped all the cables that were on the punchdown panel and put a switch in there instead, and replaced all the wall jacks with RJ45, and bam, working gigabit around the house, including PoE for my WiFi access points. Still haven’t had to punch any holes in the walls.
Same; this was the nicest unexpected surprise about buying this place.
Condo built in 2006 with cat5 . Two bedrooms + living room all wired with rj11 phone jacks. Just snipped those off, wired up rj45, and attached the other ends in my utility closet to a patch panel with rj45 as well.
I don't know if it's just cat5 or 5e, but it saturates a 2.5Gbe link and in-wall cable length is about 15-25 meters.
And you're lucky with that build time, if it was more recent it'd probably be CCA or even CCS. When we redid our place a few years ago I went and bought a drum of plenum cable and told the electricians to use that, so I know what went in there. Overprovisioned slightly but who cares, I had a whole drum of cable and a 48-port switch so may as well use it all.
The only problem with this is that for some god-afwful reason, anything built before the 2010s (?) placed electrical and phone sockets at hip level instead of ankle level. So you're staring at ugly sockets all day.
So sadly you still have to punch holes.
Then again, it isn't that much of a bother if all you have to do is punch a lower hole, relocate the socket and then plaster both holes up and repaint. Especially if you make it a weekend job to do the whole house at once. Or rather, the way I look at it is that it's a weekend job that will improve how the house feels for decades. Doing blind wiring (gutters) for all the ceiling lights falls in the same category.
I think electrical/phone sockets were placed at that level because many telephones were designed to hang on the wall (docking onto and covering up the faceplate) for easy access. My childhood home had one that we used this way before we got a landline.
I was resigned to running cat6e up three floors because there was only coax and I needed a wifi AP up there. Came across the moca solution and it's great. I get flawless 2.5gbe from the basement switch to the third floor over coax. It's basically a little device that connects at each end of the coax and cat6 goes in and out.
Cat 6 would be better though so I could run POE from the basement switch to power the wifi AP, and instead I need to go do a much more complicated switch (cat6) -> moca adapter + power brick to power moca adapter -> coax -> moca adapter + power brick (cat6) -> POE injector (with power brick) -> wifi AP. SO I'm adding at least three power bricks to the setup, which is annoying. Otherwise it would be one cat6 drawing POE from the switch and powering the AP.
You can run power over coax! You can buy power-injecting splitters that were used to power old analog cameras. They basically just connect the cable to the 12V, sometimes directly but usually through some current-limiting safety switch.
MoCA devices have a 100 Ohm internal resistor at the end to limit the cable echoes, so they are not affected by the DC on the cable.
It's worth remembering that UK coax is typically lower quality than that used in the US where these are designed to be used, due to UK coax only needing to transmit terrestrial TV compared to cable in the US.
+1 on MOCA 2 being excellent to solve gaps in wiring. We bought a 6000 sqft 2001 house built with in-wall RJ11, lots of coax runs and some Cat5e runs (but not enough). Due to the size the house, the electrical, HVAC and cabling is roughly divided into two halves with separate electrical panels, HVAC pads, etc.
Unfortunately, all the RJ11 and alarm wiring runs to a closet in one half while all the coax and Cat5e run to a closet in the other half - with no RJ11 endpoints near the Cat5e/Coax closet and not Cat5e/Coax endpoints near the RJ11 closet (sigh). I tried Powerline data and it only works well in adjacent rooms and not at all between the halves due to separate electrical panels. Fortunately, there were a lot of coax runs set up for two separate nets (18-inch satellite and a huge attic antenna for OTA broadcast). So, by repurposing the now-unneeded antenna coax, MOCA 2.5 gbps mostly saved the day by filling in where the Cat5e should have gone but didn't.
My mother moved into a retirement village a while back and I was pleasantly surprised to find Ethernet jacks in every room, in some cases more than one. There was no patch panel or anything which was a bit odd, maybe hidden in a service cupboard, but initially I just needed to get a connection from the router to the bedroom and established that these two jacks there were connected. Hooked it up, nothing worked no matter what I did.
On the next visit, with diagnostic gear to look at the wiring map, I found out that the Ethernet jacks were wired up for phone lines. Some genius had decided to run Ethernet to every room, with RJ45 wall sockets, but wired it up for phone lines, so it was simultaneously unusable for either phones or networking.
My place had previous owners who had the foresight to thread the wire through PVC tube behind the wall. This means that when I wanted to add extra access points, it was easy to thread another cat5 through and pull it to where I wanted.
> Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair.
This is why there are two wiring standards, T568A and T568B, with A being compatible with multi-line telephone systems:
> The T568A scheme is based on the older USOC (Universal Service Order Code) standard, which was used for telephone wiring before the advent of high-speed data networks. The USOC standard assigned the green pair to the first line and the orange pair to the second line of a two-line phone system.
> As of 2018, ANSI/TIA still [recommended] T568A for residential installations for plug-in backward compatibility with old technology like fax machines or a plug-in base station for wireless phone handsets. If you are not using any such devices, or have no intention of plugging ancient RJ11 plugs into RJ45 wall jacks like you would a “phone jack”, then it comes back to personal preference again.
Gigabit Ethernet require 4 twisted pairs i.e. 8 individual cables. 100Mb Ethernet requires 2 pairs i.e. 4 individual cables. At least in standard configuration
There is a standard for Gbit over a single pair: Single Pair Ethernet (SPE). But it's more of a rare automotive thing, so I'm also confused how the grandparent made this work.
I have converted 'RJ11 phone plugs' to Ethernet in multiple rentals to the delight of the landlord. One should also not that event Cat 5 can carry 1Gbps (instead of 100Mpbs) and Car 5e can carry 10Gbps (instead of 1Gbps) depending on the length and other factors such as which switch is used.
Ethernet is usually two pair, but cat5 has four. When I moved into a new apartment building I found all the phones were cat5 wiring so I was able to redo three of the outlets to do phone and an ethernet jack, then put a switch in the coat closet, which is where the wiring guys put the junction box.
I can’t recall if I put them back when I moved out. I must have, but I’ve no recollection of doing so. I think I left the junction box in the closet though.
I pulled several thousand lines as a kid starting out in Gen-X era and you are completely correct with one scalability and labor cost issue:
Real cat5 and ethernet connectors just work and phone cable and phone plugs just work, but if you mix them you'll get all manner of expensive labor costs trying to figure out jury rigged solutions.
At one client they used two pair for business phone system, we're on a cable pulling team and one guy punches down the blue and green pairs the other side punches down blue and orange pairs (essentially a 568A vs 568B violation) and we spend SOME EXPENSIVE TIME trying to figure out why the cable toner "proves" we are on the same cable so it can't be a wiring fault.
Or the stereotype of the halfway colorblind guy at the far end working in the ceiling, on a ladder, in the dark, swaps the orange and brown pairs as happens sometimes.
Oh even funnier is there's always "that guy" who is too lazy to pull an additional cable to a new phone, so he steals some pairs from a nearby phone, somehow knocking out both phones in the process. Such a headache.
Labor for troubleshooting miswired cables/jacks is SO expensive its just cheaper at work to install phone lines using phone line parts and ethernet using ethernet parts.
The arrival of VOIP phones around Y2K, somewhat after my time, must make life so much easier. And now nobody uses wired phones everyone has a smartphone.
At home if you're doing one line and its a hobby so your time is free, then your strategy does work.
This is a fantastic result, but I am dying to know how the G.hn chipset creates the bit-loading map on a topology with that many bridge taps. In VDSL2 deployment, any unused extension socket in the house acts as an open-circuited stub, creating signal reflections that notch out specific frequencies (albeit usually killing performance).
If the author is hitting 940 Mbps on a daisy-chain, either the echo cancellation or the frequency diversity on these chips must be lightyears ahead of standard DSLAMs. Does the web interface expose the SNR-per-tone graph? I suspect you would see massive dips where the wiring splits to the other rooms, but the OFDM is just aggressively modulating around them.
> There are four pair of wires in the cable. If you use all of them for TX, you can't receive.
No, you absolutely can use them all for transmit and receive at the same time. The device at each end knows what signal it is transmitting, and can remove that from the received signal to identify what has been transmitted by the other end.
This is the magic that made 1000Base-T win out among the candidates for Gige over copper, since it required the lowest signaling frequencies and thus would run better over existing cables.
1000Base-T uses four pairs in both directions at the same time. It does this through the use of a hybrid in the PHY that subtracts what is being transmitted from what is received on the wires. 802.3ab is a fairly complicated specification with many layers of abstraction. I spent a few months studying it for a project about a decade ago.
> 1000Base-T uses two pairs per direction, actually. It's full duplex. Each port sees two TX and two RX pair.
you may be thinking of 1000Base-TX (TIA‐854) which uses 2 pairs in each direction, similar to 100Base-TX (IEEE 802.3u). whereas 1000Base-T (IEEE 802.3ab) uses all 4 pairs in both directions.
basically, the -TX are dual simplex with a set of wires for each direction and -T are full-duplex with the same wires used in both directions at the same time.
Autonegotiation is a requirement for 1000BASE-T implementations as minimally the clock source for the link has to be negotiated, as one endpoint must be master and the other endpoint must be slave.
1000BASE-T uses four cable pairs for simultaneous transmission in both directions through the use of echo cancellation with adaptive equalization. Line coding is five-level pulse-amplitude modulation (PAM-5).
Since autonegotiation takes place on only two pairs, if two 1000BASE-T interfaces are connected through a cable with only two pairs, the interfaces will complete negotiation and choose gigabit as the best common operating mode, but the link will never come up because all four pairs are required for data communications.
Each 1000BASE-T network segment is recommended to be a maximum length of 100 meters and must use Category 5 cable or better.
Automatic MDI/MDI-X configuration is specified as an optional feature in the standard that is commonly implemented. This feature makes it safe to incorrectly mix straight-through and crossover-cables, plus mix MDI and MDI-X devices.
It's been many years since I implemented G.Hn hardware, but if memory serves the chipsets are typically able to split the available bandwidth into 1 or 2 MHz wide bins and choose different symbol densities and FEC levels for each bin. If you have a bin that has horrible reflections, you don't use it at all.
I also recall that the chipsets don't do toning automatically, and so it's up the the management device to decide when to re-probe the channel and reconfigure the bins.
I know nothing about DSL. But G.hn uses OFDM, and OFDM can do a cute trick in which it learns a complex number to multiply each subcarrier signal by. Since the subcarrier signals are literally just Fourier coefficients of the signal, this can equalize all kinds of linear time invariant signal issues so long as they’re reasonably compact in the time domain as compared to the guard interval. And I imagine that G.hn has some way to figure out which coefficients (subcarriers) are weak and avoid using or relying on them — there are multiple ways to do that.
You're right, G.hn will have the same issue as DSL here; all of the tiny bridge taps from the extra jacks will create small dips in the bitloading.
That being said, with 200MHz of spectrum to play with, the impact on rates should be negligible. With the 200MHz G.hn phone line profile (48KHz tone spacing), we get about ~1.5Gbps, so you can take some lumps and still get ~1Gbps throughput.
One big advantage though, G.hn is natively p2mp and each jack could have it's own G.hn endpoint.
> Basically, you need to follow the tracking regularly until the package is tagged as lost or failed delivery, which is the cue to pay import fees.
> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!
It’s no coincidence those that championed Brexit are those that wanted a weaker Europe and weaker U.K.
That’s why the majority of tax payers were against it, the majority of educated people voted against it, the majority of working people voted against it, the majority of people alive today who voted voted against it
Bloody poor people deciding for themselves what they want. Shouldn't get a vote unless you have a degree and property. If only they'd had the sense to listen to their betters.
But the remaining wealth of the country has successfully been extracted in the form of overpriced and not-fit-for-purpose utilities, transport companies, taxes, and so on and given to corporate interests. From their perspective it's a resounding success.
I wouldn't strictly put all of them at the feet of the EU. While what you say is true, the Conservatives were frothing to privatise whatever they could. Labour just went along with the process (and I'm no Labour supporter either).
The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.
And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).
> The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.
100% agreed
there's no market or competition at any level (even RAIL had somewhat competitive bidding for franchises)
they're just Henry VIII style granted monopolies, with the results are the same as they were 800 years ago
(well, other than the civil war bit)
> And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).
water was another EU triggered one: the EU (EEC) kept writing new water directives, and the government couldn't figure out another way to fund their implementation
A large chunk of the “classic” UK sell-offs were 1980s to early 1990s: BT (1984), British Gas (1986), British Airways (1987), and by 1991 regional electricity and water companies had been privatised.
A lot of EU single-market liberalisation in network industries ramped up later (late 1980s/1990s, and beyond). For example, telecoms EU “competition” directives begin in 1988/1990 and are amended through the 1990s.
Meanwhile, the UK government had already announced plans to sell major chunks of BT by 1982, and BT’s privatization was implemented through UK legislation. England/Wales water privatization was created by Water Act 1989.
If the government couldn't figure out a way to fund their implementation, then either the government was insufficiently-wily (in which case, they could've hired wily consultants), or it was genuinely impossible without taking money from another pot. If the latter, then selling to a for-profit corporate structure was the worst possible decision they could've made.
I'll bite on this one. I've been saying to anyone who will listen here in the states: my generation, the Boomers, needs to die out and/or get the hell out of the way. We're trashing almost everything because of a cult of hero worship.
While I used to agree with you, based on the most recent polling, Gen X and Gen Z are both farther right than Boomers are these days. So we're fucked long term too.
Don't be so sure that the next generation automatically gets less indoctrinated.
Facebook at least documented content interactions out in the open. With tiktok you don't notice what kind of content someone consumes.
There are tens of thousands of people working a full time job just to influence people in democratic countries to act/vote against their interests. Then we have hundreds of thousands more in advertisement industry with their own interests, mainly in line with goals of US companies.
There is reason for optimism because if everyone is on tiktok it becomes "uncool" again but still it is a very dangerous tool.
> "Paid the fee online, 20% VAT + a few pounds of handling fees ... It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020."
Why don't Amazon and other online retailers just charge you the UK VAT when you order and ship it "VAT paid", so it doesn't get held up at the border?
That's how it works in New Zealand. You pay New Zealand's GST when you place an order, not after it arrives. Any online retailer that ships over a certain volume of products to New Zealand is required to implement this.
This is exactly how it works in the UK for purchases worth £135 or less which are shipped directly from outside the UK. The retailer has to charge UK VAT as if it were a domestic sale at the point of sale, and there is then nothing to pay at customs so no hold-up for that. It's only consignments worth over £135 where it ends up being stopped for payment at import.
On top of that, Amazon and other large online retailers also have a huge distribution and warehouse network domestically in the UK already so for higher value items mostly they import themselves to their warehouses before sale and then sales are purely domestic.
Strangely, if I order from Amazon UK to Finland in the EU, the VAT is already all included and it comes directly to me, no customs. Even for some third party sellers too.
It would be far better if we could get a government in who would use Brexit freedoms to scrap VAT and all the other sales and import taxes. They are an administrative nightmare and both unnecessary and ineffective. Stick to simpler taxes.
The problem is that we have one side who loves all things EU and the other that loves all things neoliberal - both of which are obsessed with sales taxes for some reason
VAT is not really all that complicated and accounts for around 15% of the UK tax take. Moving that to income tax would mean a substantial redistribution from working people to pensioners and incentivise moving more production abroad.
Import taxes are pretty complicated but unilaterally removing them would mean we would have nothing to negotiate tariff free access to foreign markets.
Vat is stupidly complex. Try doing an international conference for example. Not to mention the impact on imports as the OP discovered.
Quite why people think tax stays in one place is beyond me - all costs are passed on and tax is no different. Putting the tax on employer NiCS for example would result in roughly the same business collection and payment, but with a significant reduction in administration and the tax gap since PAYE collection is more efficient.
And quite why obtaining foreign items more expensive is seen as a negotiating point could only be brought up by somebody who hasn’t thought through how floating exchange rates work. We want more stuff coming in and less going out. That’s how you win in international trade. Exports are a cost remember.
As we see from the US, it is the local population that pays the cost of import tariffs and taxes. The currency exchange rate fixes the rest.
A single country's tax policies don't exist in a vacuum. Let's take as an example a new car that costs £36,000 including 20% VAT. If the UK removed VAT and put the cost on employer NICS then British built cars would still cost roughly £36,000 but foreign built cars would now cost £30,000 and what little of the British car industry is left after Brexit quickly ceases to exist as the multinational companies that run them shift production elsewhere to remain price competitive.
Trump's broad based tariffs are dumb because much of what is being tariffed is not really manufactured in the US anyway. But used in a more targeted manner they can help ensure a level playing field for your country's products in the countries you have trade agreements with. Otherwise what incentive is there for another country to negotiate a trade agreement that gives equal access to says cars manufactured in either country?
Fixed exchange rate thinking I’m afraid. Try it again but with a floating exchange rate - understanding that importers into a currency area pay the local area costs of exporters from that currency area. Reducing the tax thereby means there is more sterling available for exporters to earn.
You will find then that the exchange value is a function of productivity not currency numbers.
Moving VAT to employers NICs will impact those operations that use a lot of labour and few machines. That favours those operations that have higher productivity.
Therefore the physical cost of exports will reduce and the value of imports to the local population increase.
If that reduces the number of exporters then that is of benefit to the nation, as there are more people available to work on domestic production.
With floating exchange rates you don’t need “trade deals”. The exchange rate sorts it all out for you.
Putting rocks in your own harbour is always a silly idea. If other nations play dumping games then you fix that with subsidies not tariffs.
Weird, I've never needed to do that - Royal Mail or whichever courier is handling it will either put a note for customs payment through the door (Royal Mail/Parcelforce), or send me an invoice via post or email (any of the other couriers).
Ah, mate. I sure wish you'd figured this out and told me about it 10 years ago. I fought with this exact same issue for years.
I live in an old stone farmhouse with my office in a stone garage across a nice poured concrete driveway. There's wires from A to B under all that, but nobody except an unknown electrician from the 80s could tell you even where they come out at either end.
Powerline kinda worked, with crap download speed and just abysmal upload (0.1mbps max), and I limped along with it for years.
When we upgraded to Fibre, that left the old phone line spare, and as luck would have it went straight from the office to the router cabinet in the house. But 80s electrician guy didn't use Cat5, so my genius attempt to use it as ethernet cable ended up slower than the powerline.
My eventual solution was a crazy powerful point-to-point wifi beam blasting straight through the 3 foot thick stone wall to a receiver in the garage below the office. It sets birds on fire from time to time if they fly through it while Helldivers is downloading an update, but it gets the job done.
Still, I might look in to getting one of these things as an upgrade.
Another solution: run ethernet cables outdoors on the ground.
You can do ethernet cables outdoors from your router in your house to your router in your office. Either thin cables that go under doors, or outdoor rated ones, both can work fine.
This same approach can work inside a house as an alternative to mesh networking or running cables through walls. The cables don't have to be invisible (underground or in walls) when you have tough constraints, unless you want them to be.
> The direct line across would get run over by cars. Indirect routes would still have to cross pavement and look ugly.
Search for "cable protector ramps"
> And then there are still those six feet of stone that needs drilling through to get the cable outside and back in.
Thin cables designed to run under doors or windowsills are an option. Search for "flat ethernet cable"
It seems like you prefer your setup for good reasons, and these solutions above are both ugly, but I still wanted to note to others reading this that workarounds exist.
It's just that almost anything is better than wifi in concrete/stone houses. I can see point-to-point outside with an unobstructed view being reliable enough. But point-to-point through 3ft of concrete is [HN is a neglected Xennial hobby and doesn't support emojis]!
Certainly worth reconsidering wired when that P2P hardware goes EOL.
There is equipment that will dig a small tunnel like thing under concrete, avoiding needing to destroy your driveway (assuming there is space on either side) . Won't be cheap, but it's possible.
To what end? The runs aren't going to be long enough for fiber to provide a benefit, and the transceivers are more expensive for consumer use like this.
I've worked with DB people and running lines under driveways for telco and cableco is BIG business and they will not find your request to bury fiber or cat5 to be even remotely unusual.
The bad news about directional boring is they usually want "like a kilobuck" just to show up. Its a lot of heavy equipment and a lot of dudes to operate it all.
The good news is if they're already down the road they'll come by and bore for like $20/foot because its a small job (usually they only charge $10/foot for long runs)
Permitting depends a lot on where you live, some places treat it as a cash cow and they will brutally milk you, others don't require a permit at all. The equipment takes up a fair amount of space on each side, probably more than you'd expect. Scheduling is like dealing with an arborist. "OMG I need this partially collapsed tree removed immediately its an emergency I have homeowners insurance please arrive in the next hour" well thats multiple kilobucks "Meh please remove this tree sometime and I don't care when" well thats like $250, probably less if cash.
I've seen people spend thousands of dollars on DB or crazy laser/wireless comm gear to avoid spending hundreds of dollars on a stone mason. Try not to pay someone to DB under a stone wall, its usually cheaper to hire a stone mason twice and he will leave the wall in better condition than before you started. All masonry is temporary unless its maintained. Similar logic might apply to driveways, most concrete cracks so if you're hiring a guy to fix the crack you may want to bury a conduit before he fixes it. Replacing an entire driveway is expensive, replacing a sidewalk sized path is surprisingly cheap. If you want sidewalk poured (like for a walkway in your garden or around a swimming pool) its about $50/foot and a driveway would have to be thicker and better prepped, but the section could be narrower than a sidewalk. The point being don't accept a DB bid over $50/ft because its cheaper to replace the concrete at $50/ft.
There are simpler ways to get a conduit under a driveway than a huge DB machine. I'm boarding a flight, but look up using water (dig a pit on either side of the road, attach water hose to piece of conduit, and push the conduit under the driveway using the water to erode a hole as you go.)
The there are also smaller hydraulic ram tools designed for pushing a pipe under a driveway.
Probably should have mentioned that it's not a driveway in the US sense, where it's a strip of pavement with dirt on either side. More like a courtyard that butts up against the main house and guesthouse. There's no digging under it from the side.
I would guess directional boring. They can start a bore and sort of drive it around corners.
20 years ago when they were putting fiber in all over the place here, they would bore around a whole cul-de-sac in one go. In several cases breaking every water service line on their way through.
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets. There is still no regulation that requires new build to get Ethernet wiring (as far as I know).
I think this is true in the sense of there's no regulation it's just up to the developer, but my house (new build, 2021) has an RJ45 patch panel downstairs with 4 ports that lead to 4 areas of the house.
This was actually a surprise to me when I got the place because when I was speaking to the sales associates they had 0 clue what I was talking about when I enquired about network cabling. If I had known they were installing it as standard I'd have asked for more ports in more rooms, but hindsight...
But yeah, there's also 4 phone sockets as well, which I don't use. This solution might be interesting to try out, but phone sockets are in the same place as where the ethernet sockets are and I've no real need to expand in those rooms right now.
My new build (2023) would have had 0 ethernet if I didn't request it. It's so cheap to wire it in and so useful for the future I don't know why it's not just standard.
It had phone sockets though, for whatever reason.
When I was configuring the house the person I was with to do it didn't even know what ethernet was.
One thing I wished I could have picked was where all the ethernet terminated. It's all gone to a little cupboard where the fibre enters the house. That's convenient I guess if you had just one socket in the living room where you stick your Wifi router. But when I've got ethernet to all the rooms, I'd rather have it all in a back bedroom so I can stick a server rack in there. I guess I can still do that, it just means I need 2 switches now.
The vast majority of people don't care and would never use ethernet sockets, as long as they can get a good enough wifi connection to their smart TV for Netflix etc. then they're happy and most of the time wifi can do that.
It's only really gamers who are likely to consider using ethernet and avid online gamers don't make up a significant percentage of the people who buy new build homes
Which is a shame, because it puts a huge support burden on ISPs. Every time some WiFi interference slows someone’s internet down they’ll end up blaming the ISP and calling support.
When looking at new build houses a year or two back (in the UK), I saw some stuff that made no sense to me: they installed some by default, but ran it to only the lounge and bedroom 1, the house also had a dedicated study (labelled as such by them) which did not have an ethernet run to it, and they refused to let you option in any more, very weird.
It might be worth pulling off those phone sockets and seeing what the cable is. Quite often it'll be cat5e and if so it's a simple upgrade to change to an rj45 keystone. Especially if it uses Euro module faceplates.
I've been using this for a couple of years in my home now, with the same German Gigacopper devices. It's rock solid, very much unlike my attempts at power-line ethernet in the past. I used ethernet over coax in my last house too, which was also great.
I think many (most?) UK houses could get gigabit ethernet to at least some rooms without any new wiring. It's strange that the devices for doing it reliably are hard to get, but powerline ethernet modems are sold everywhere despite barely working in most houses.
My experience with powerline is they can work well for low activity, but they all overheat if you actually use them continuously, and the advertised speeds are extremely misleading as they are before error correction (which is very significant) and for the whole network.
My guess is that the nature of them being in a power plug means that they struggle to isolate things from the mains for safety in a way that doesn't also make them hotboxes.
I didn't notice overheating, but there are a quite a few different products on the market.
The modest speed (~50MBps at my place) was then ok-ish, but the (variable!) latency of a couple of ms was annoying (it tended to break pacemaker/corosync cluster communication). And every once in a blue moon they stopped working altogether and needed to be un-plugged.
Worst, for someone interested in analogue electronics, they emit (of course) a huge amount of electrical noise into the power lines.
I had a similar issue but instead I opted to replace all the wiring with CAT5E. I used the old phone wiring as a pull-wire to get the CAT5E through the walls very, very slowly. CAT5E was used as I needed all the flexibility I could get and 1Gbit was enough at the time.
The RJ11 panels on the wall were replaced with RJ45, crimped everything. Took a full day of carefully pulling wires but in the end I got gigabit all over the home.
The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.
You're the reason why the author's assertion that there is a huge untapped market for this in the UK is probably wrong; most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
There might be some market for a simple point-to-point device sold by the likes of Argos, zero config and including all the right cables already, aimed at people who can't or won't upgrade their cabling but want to enable their kid to play Fortnite.
But... there is no clear patent protection available, so as soon as someone successfully creates and markets that device, the Tiktok Shop clones will appear.
Pulling cables through walls is really easy for some construction styles and really difficult for others.
Can involve taking up floorboards and drilling horizontally through beams, plumber style. Or cutting slots in masonry with angle grinders. Sometimes there are existing wires you can tie to and pull through, sometimes the existing wires were stapled to the walls.
On the bright side everything about the ethernet wires and connections is trivial. Like demo to a friend in 20 minutes and let them walk off with the toolbox and they'll be fine wiring their house, if the construction style is amenable.
Agreed. I tugged on each phone wire a to see if they were free. And I got lucky on all of them.
One of the problems I had was a kinked conduit where concrete was poured on top, or at least that is what I assumed. Was a bit difficult to get the “knot” (where the phone wire was connected to the CAT5E) through that spot.
The twisted pair (should be two but one pair is broken...) installed in the 60s in my home are so stuck you will never, ever, get those out without ripping the wall apart. Originally the coaxials should have gone through the same pipes, as there should be enough space, but there is so much gunk in there it was impossible and they layed out a new tube though the floors and ceilings in the corner. For fun and because institutional knowledge is for suckers, they tried the same with fiber and simply gave up so now we are in limbo because computer says we have fiber but we don't.
most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
"Technical" isn't the issue. 200 year old stone houses are the issue. If you can't punch through it with wifi (and thus have this issue), I expect you're not going to be able to poke a cable through either.
For an example, to get from my house router to my office, you'd need to punch through a 3 foot cobble & mortar wall, trench across 30 feet of poured concrete (and tidy it up somehow), punch through another 3 foot thick stone wall, then "pull cable" up to the office. There's an old phone line from A to B that went in 30 years ago when the place was first renovated, but you can tug on it all you like and it's not going anywhere.
If I'd seen this article a few years ago, my life would have been a lot easier.
The holes are already made if there are phone cables going in every room. The idea is to reroute ethernet cables through the same holes and guides and replace the sockets.
It is the same when fiber is installed in an old house, you usually reuse tv antenna/phones entries/guides and exit holes.
Yeah, it'd have to be something like that, and nomatter how well you did it, it'd be noticeable.
Fortunately, (as I mentioned in another thread,) I got a powerful enough point-to-point wifi connection to blast through the stone walls and get decent results.
With old houses you may also have restrictions on what you can do. BT send some to my friends' house every so often to upgrade to FTTP. They say they are going to drill through walls etc. until its pointed out the building is grade II* listed and there are rules and permissions needed at which point they go away.
> most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
It's really not that simple when you realize that the average UK flat has 3+ sockets and the average house has 5+ sockets (speaking from my own experience). Some daisy chained and some direct.
Besides, a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.
> a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.
Nobody's going to complain about a backwards-compatible upgrade (you can put phone sockets back when you leave - nobody has to know there's cat 5/6 behind it).
One of the big problems with pulling cable in the UK is the abundance of solid internal walls. Running cabling in my house involves lifting floorboards or drilling through multiple 2ft thick stone walls. It’s worth doing while you’re there but so destructive if you’re not
> The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.
Unlikely, they’ll probably be delighted that you went to the effort at all. While not ideal, Cat5e is usually good enough for 10 gigabit over shorter lengths. It’s not unusual for it to work perfectly on wires as long as 20 or 30 metres.
Relatively successful was slotting the cat5 jacket, cutting off two or three of the pairs, twisting/tying the remaining pair to the old wire, then sliding the jacket back over the join before wrapping in a conservative amount of electrical tape. You want the join to be similar width to the cable and preferably flexible.
I have a suspicion that pulling fishing line first is the right play if you can manage to connect it to the old wire. Flexible, very high tensile strength, small.
In addition, in one room I ran two CAT5E cables as there was conduit along the entire way. So I took a CAT5E cable double the length of the conduit, stripped the outer sheath in the middle, folded the cable to get a loop and then attached the phone cable to that using the individual inner wires. Plus tape.
I wish I knew about this when I lived in a house without Ethernet sockets! I needed it in the attic for my PC and servers and all I had were slow, unreliable TP-Link Powerline adapters. My first speed test gave me 37.1Kbps (after painfully loading Cloudflare's test page). On a really good day I could get 3MBps. I'd get disconnected multiple times a day and I had to try all sorts of methods to get the adapter to connect again. I had to write a program in the end to tell me if I didn't have internet because the Powerline broke or my DNS server broke (normally it's always DNS but turns out it wasn't) :D
I had a phone socket in that room and I had already discussed the possibility of converting it into an Ethernet socket but decided it's not worth it because everything ended up in a cupboard far away from my router. These adapters would have solved the problem nicely!
By the way, I have more fun stories. The cabling in my current house (which has Ethernet sockets) is still miserable. I spent a year working with my PC over USB tethering to my phone until I finally called an electrician to find which of the 11 dangling cables in the cupboard went to my office...
One day some wires in there were slightly moved and the internet got disconnected because they were badly crimped. Nothing was working so in the end I got an RJ45 connector and managed to get the wires in there.
The apartment block I live in in Ireland has converted phone sockets into Ethernet using similar converters, except (a) it was in 2004, so 10Mbit base, (b) they ordered whole socket replacements, eliminating the need for separate box outside the walls, (c) the goal was to buy 1 business high speed line, and split it across all apartments, which became obsolete when ADSL, DOCSIS, and later FTTH became affordable options.
I heard the state of the wiring also wasn't great, sometimes apartments had twisted pair wires, while some straight wires, some only have 2 or 3 out of 4 wires connected, etc.
This wouldn't be legal in my country unless all the apartments had one owner, because the telcos have a monopoly on communications.
The law says one person can't stretch a cable over to his neighbour, because they would need a licence for that (although if you did do that, who would know?).
I think our phone lines must work differently, the entire infrastructure is owned by one company (BT) who must lease it to other companies. So they can do things like this, as everyone needs a router at the end to access it and that's how they charge per customer.
There is a separate cable network, again one operator (Virgin), who don't lease it out.
In the UK, pull the socket front off and look what the wires actually are.
I have seen electricians use cat 5 to carry phone lines several times. It is a mixture between having cat5 already in stock, and future proofing I think.
If it is cat 5 then just put an RJ45 socket on it.
As others have said, you can also try running ethernet on a phone line, you might not get gigabit, but you might get more than what is coming into your house!
The third point is you may be able to use the phone cable to fish a cat 5 through (depending on where it is). Electricians tend to be very good at this!
That's also a good point that the Network hardware does not care about cable categories.
If it plugs into your card the card goes "OK, lets see if 1000baseT fits on this?" the cables don't have a little chip or anything saying "I'm not suitable for high speed" the card will figure out whether this looks plausible and just do it.
At the turn of the century I was putting new Cisco gear into a building (which has since burned down, not related) that had been built a long time ago and so it didn't have Cat 5e cables. I was fitting switches which were state of the art at the time (IPv6 experiments), and they didn't have a 100Mbit option because that was legacy, so you'd plug this ancient looking 1980s cable designed for 10baseT into a switch, and in most cases once it's connected the switch and the network card at the far end both go "Aha link, can I do 1000baseT over this?" and conclude yeah, Gigabit just works. There is a setting to say "No, only do 10baseT" but why set it? Users don't want slow Internet.
Unless somebody went very cheap and strung literal bellwire (which was never rated for a telephone but would probably work) or your distances are very long, you will almost certainly get 100Mb and if there actually are four pairs you will most likely get Gigabit.
> the cables don't have a little chip or anything saying "I'm not suitable for high speed" the card will figure out whether this looks plausible and just do it.
You're actually wrong on all of that ^^
The cables actually have a rating to say what they are suitable to. See the markings on the cable: category Cat5/Cat5e/Cat6 + frequency range 100/250 Mhz + insulation UTP/FTP/STP/mix.
Ethernet cards don't negotiate, they typically only check whether the pairs can transmit any signal. You could end up in a situation where they go for gigabit and it doesn't work well.
Fortunately, the main issue for signal transmission is loss over distance. Ethernet is designed to work over 100m every time in a noisy industrial environment. You've got a pretty good chance for it to work on a short run, even with poor cables.
The alternatives being discussed ADSL/VDSL/G.hn actually detect the capability of the medium and adjust the transmission rates and frequency to give the maximum possible speed. IMO they are much more advanced technologically and much more interesting. (Ethernet is doing exactly 250 Mbps on one pair, G.hn can do up to 1700 Mbps on the same pair, automatically adjusted, the article is getting 1300 Mbps which is insane!)
Worthwhile to point out: The Cat5 cable required for gigabit Ethernet is merely twisted pairs with no insulation, which is pretty much a dumb basic cable (with 8 wires). That's why any cable can work in practice.
I don't know how possible it is to find a really bad cable (untwisted) and it might work on a short length anyway. (Your 1980s office cabling must have been 8 wires if you were able to get gigabit later, so it was far beyond basic phone wires or Cat1 from the time).
Sure, they will have been bundles of 4 pairs and I suppose we could say that is a matter of luck, it will have been installed from the outset in anticipation of networking - there's a period in the late 1980s when everybody is iterating on what will soon become 10baseT and the people in that building would have known all about it - but there's no reason back then to know 4 pairs will be an auspicious choice rather than 3 or 6.
So yes, those cables though they weren't Cat 5e because it didn't exist when they were manufactured, also were not basic phone cables, and I believe when the building was formally opened it had "ground breaking" 10Mbit Ethernet to every laboratory.
Even if the cable is cat 5, telephone sockets are often daisy-chained from room to room. So it can still be a pain to get a point to point connection if it goes through several sockets.
You are a god send! I have the same issue. My house (2013!!!) is fully phone wired but has zero Ethernet. I have 3 floors which each running on a different phase (the electrician wired it like that). I have a power line adapter in my fuse box to connect directly to the three phases. But I can’t stream content or large files. Even worse the power line adapters bring noise into my power sockets. A guitar amp gets ground crackling etc. will look into this solution!
I see that they also offer a coax solution. Which would fit just as well I have a tv connection in every room which also connects in the second box in the utility room. And I don’t need it ;)
When we bought our house (1950s semidetached) it needed a full electrical rewire. I’m so glad I asked the electricians to run Ethernet all over the house at the same time, including to the ceiling in some rooms for WiFi access points.
Can confirm the bit about phone sockets. Our old house came with a phone socket by the bed in both bedrooms. Also a TV aerial socket in the master bedroom (not in the second bedroom though, no TV for you!)
You don’t need niche hardware to do this, if you’re handy with a soldering iron! You can quite easily modify devices intended for use on AC lines, for any conductor!
Here in the states, when we moved into our house that was built in the late 60's, every room had a phone jack. The exterior of the house had cabling strung onto the back and one side with lines installed, through the brick, into the separate rooms. There was also a line or two in the attic. Sometime in the early 90's, after I fired Southwestern Bell, I striped away all the wiring. Two of out kids had new homes built, both were wired with Ethernet cable only for communication.
<I can’t stress enough how much we love our phone sockets. It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.>
My wife and I rented a flat in Amsterdam a few years ago. I noticed that there was a phone jack in the water heater room, which I thought was strange. Now I know. (I was looking for the broom, BTW.)
The German suppliers they link do European centric MOCA too!
Looking seriously at these guys - the previous owners who renovated put decent CoAx absolutely everywhere, 4 BT lines for the outside office, and 0 Ethernet in.
Some of the OP's RJ11 runs apparently only have two wires connected, which may be a UK thing (or just a 'bad contractor thing'). Hence resorting to a solution that that can put broadband on two or four unshielded phone wires (probably based on ADSL-type signaling).
In the US, houses built to code in the last 30-40 years generally have 4-wire runs to RJ-11 jacks. TFA doesn't mention it but it is possible (although hacky) to gang up two four conductor phone wires into an 8 wire Ethernet run. It's a hack because those phone wires aren't even shielded as well as basic Cat5 but it can still work for relatively short runs. With more people using mobile phones, wireless phones or IP phones instead of POTS, that's leaving increasing amounts of in-wall RJ11 dormant. It might not work, but it's pretty easy to test and much easier than running new wires.
My latest house, built about eight years ago, came with CAT6A cabling for all of the phones. That made it really easy to just replace all of the RJ11 jacks with RJ45 (or 8P8C if you like to call them that). They've been providing POE+ gigabit Ethernet for the past seven years, and I'm about to upgrade them to 10GBase-T.
I envy you. Must be nice to open up a wall jack and be pleasantly surprised instead of bitterly disappointed :-).
I recently built a vacation property and could choose what to install. Initially, I was thinking CAT6A but after getting some good quality plenum-rated 6A to play with, I discovered it's surprisingly thick and doesn't bend very easily (minimum corner radii to avoid shield damage are actually specced) and it's not exactly easy to DIY new connectors on them correctly if you don't do it all the time.
So, after really considering the max throughput I'm ever likely to actually use, I decided to go with some good CAT6. It wasn't even a cost thing, as the difference was negligible. It was just practical reality. None of the runs are very long and I should be able to get up to 10gbps on 6A, although I doubt I'll ever use more than 2.5gbps (only using 1gbps today). One factor is the property is off-grid except for AC, so data is via StarLink anyway and fiber won't ever happen out there. While LEO satellite and terrestrial cellular speeds will increase in coming years, when more than 2.5gpbs is available - it'll almost certainly be priced to maximize B2B profit and we probably wouldn't pay that for a vacation house (because this is the US, not someplace that prices broadband rationally like Korea).
Thanks for sharing this, first time I've seen such device, I'd like to add other options that I experienced and would suggest;
- Open your telephone socket, if the actual cable has 5 pairs, it's probably a cat5e cable. It can do 1gbps with a RJ45 connection, just replace the plug and connect tou your device to check, yo ucan get a cheap ethernet cable tester too. If it has just 3 pairs, it can probably do 100mbs automatically with most ethernet capable devices.
- If you just need to connect 2 devices, you may probably just use existing cables to do it. More than 2 devices would not work.
- If it doesn't work, all those cables probably go to a box, find it and check if they are connected, if not yo ucan just crimp the ends together.
Other alternatives:
- As others mentioned, MoCA devices are also able to deliver 1gbps, and there is a higher chance that you may find them in most rooms, and they are almost always connected, so it shoudl be plug&play.
- Powerline adapters novadays not too bad as well. I was able to use them in a 30 eyar old home, 3 floors up to provide 500mbs.
I think I told this story plenty of times now, but Wifi got so good, that even though we have network cables everywhere, basically nothing is hardwired in our household any more other than the TV and a few sonos speakers that were close enough to the outlets.
We have about ~100 devices connected to our home network according to my router and other than 6 devices, they are all on Wifi. I would never have expected that, but the reality is that it just got so much better over the years that I cannot be bothered with actually wiring things up any more.
That's in part because the outlets are not necessarily aligned well with the devices that would need to be connected, and then all kinds of other shit that is going on with home ethernet.
In 2020 I wrote about my USB-C adapter breaking ethernet [1]. It is still one of my most read blog posts and I get emails from it still, because apparently even in 2025 actually hooking up a USB-C ethernet adapter will cause quite a few switches to fail.
Long winded way of saying: our Ethernet does Gigabit because I never upgraded and has almost no devices left. Our Wifi does >4Gitabit because it was easy to swap and most devices are Wifi anyways.
Wireless is just fine for devices connected to the internet but as soon as you want to connect multiple devices to do a heavy load, backing up or those kinds of things, wireless really does still take a hit depending on access point density.
I'd like to mention that the cat5e cable present in your walls is rated to 2.5Gbps, and would often still work at 5 or 10Gbps over shorter runs in a home. 2.5gb equipment is very cheap nowadays. I got a couple of no-name switches under $40 each and they all work perfectly. Wired networks will always have better consistency and latency characteristics, too, if that matters to you.
Depends a lot on your house construction. I have a fancy Ubiquiti U7 Pro (on one floor, and a nanoHD on the other) but performance is crap all over my house because all the walls are reinforced concrete. In the hallway under the AP I get 1.6 Gbps on my phone but walk a few meters away into the living room and you're way under 200 Mbps because you passed 3 concrete walls.
Everyone comes home from a day out and you have several phones struggling to sync the 4K videos you shot meanwhile someone is streaming TV, open up my laptop to check the photos and now it wants to download updates...
I was able to option in Ethernet jacks where I lounge about in the living room, bedroom... - I have USB-C power bricks with built-in hubs so I stuck in cheap 2.5 GbE adapters there. Plug in to charge as normal and I automatically get 2 Gbps to the internet with no interference from anyone else, even works on iPhones with no setup.
I have three, only one is hard wired (the source). That's because I only have gigabit ethernet at the moment and the wireless backhaul is faster than the cable.
This has been my experience as well. I did have signal issues with cheap consumer router+AP combos, but after switching to Ubiquiti hardware coverage and signal have been great.
I'm so confused why there is no discussion about RJ45 connector being backwards compatible with RJ11 (the RJ11 connector fits appropriately into the RJ45 socket) and that the G4201TM should have a RJ45 socket (like G4202TCP) instead of RJ11 to be most widely functional/compatible (even though you still can use a RJ11 cable with a RJ45 wall socket to overcome this, but you could use RJ45 cables too)...
I had cat5e in my house but for phone line usage. It wasn’t daisy chained here, it was all tied in with a punch down panel in the master closet. I re-terminated the punch down side of each cable to ethernet and same with the keystone jacks in each room, and after switching to hardwired gigabit, I got into higher performance networking. I wanted to upgrade to at least 2.5 throughout the house, but maybe 5 or 10 if possible. Everything said cat5e isn’t shielded enough for 10 gig, but I tested every run with iperf3 at both tcp and udp and was surprised that everything was able to handle it! So I added a 10 gig switch to the master closet and now I have 10 gig throughout my house. Upgraded the internet to 5 gig. My NAS speeds are fantastic now and it’s really great to never have to wait on anything. The limiting factor now is the hard drive speeds!
Lots of sympathy with this plight. Great to hear that someone has done the needful and rendered MoCA style modems over pairs of copper. I'm probably a customer for that.
I'm currently running MoCA over spliced coax as part of the local connection and not amused by the 5ms latency on it. Also running 100mbit over cat3 I found in a wall which does work, but cat3 in another wall can't hold 10mbit. That link actually can hold 70mbit of vdsl but after a nearby lightning strike slagged various hardware I've moved the vdsl modem back to the BT wires entry point and run the output through some fibre.
And there's a wifi bridge between two other points. And some ethernet running outside the building. Previously also ethernet-over-mains that I might bring back now that I've learned what spanning tree protocols are so the periodic reboots they inexplicably require can be tolerated transparently.
Also the connection to the internet itself is crap so bonding vdsl, starlink and 5g through the openmptcprouter project. Just lots of redundancy and self healing hacks all over the place to give an observably solid connection.
Which is a rambling way to say that if you're in Britain and your network connection brings you sorrow, it can be forced to be acceptable with application of more time and money than other countries require.
I've had powerline adapters with uptimes measured in years (basically in between power cuts). I think yours might be defective. They absolutely do not require reboots.
Tangentially, the fact that we're still using gigabit connections in our homes and especially offices in 2026 is weird. Gigabit Ethernet is over two decades old, but it's still the most common standard. Both 2.5 and 10 Gbps are effectively niche technologies.
I get it; it's "good enough" in most cases, like USB 2.0. But it still sucks we haven't moved past it.
I connected self powered crank telephones to my home phone wiring for use as intercoms. Crank one and the others ring. Pick up to engage the battery powered talk circuit and you're chatting with Mabel like it's 1915. I did replace the old dry cell batteries with lithium camera cells so I don't need to think about them for a decade.
We have an Ethernet run that's not in use right now. I had a Cisco ATA from earlier experiments so I picked up 2 old phones with proper bell ringers and now the kids can call up from the living room to my office when it's time for dinner, they love it.
I lived in a building in Norway that had phone lines from like 1924. As it was declared as historic it was very difficult to dig newer cables. So ISP tried to use the old cables. At best one can get 10 MBit/s with a lot of packet loss. Eventually everyone switched to mobile internet. With 5g and stationary antenna it was possible to get 300 MBit/s with no packet loss and sub 10ms ping to local servers.
> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!
Just click "reconnect" and re-join to the EU (and Schengen area)
I am saying this because I have some friends living in UK, but I do not have the Visa for UK. Although I am on a work/residence-permit in EU, it is just extra hassle to get the visa. I am instead waiting for my years to finish to apply for citizenship...
I have been using the exact same G4201TM devices at home for approaching five years now to do much the same: reuse some unused telephone wiring for a meaningful purpose. They are rock solid and have needed exactly zero attention since being installed.
> It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.
This sounds a bit farfetched to me. I'm 40+ and lived in the UK all my life. Growing up we only had 1 phone socket in the house for the first few years until my dad got an extension put in upstairs. I've lived in multiple cities since then and no flat or house I've lived in has had more than 1 phone socket including the house I eventually bought and live in now (which is not small by most UK standards).
I’m a similar age and have also lived in a few houses over the years. I’ve never lived in any place that didn’t have more than one phone socket.
Though I have noticed multiple sockets are less common in really old houses which haven’t seen much modernisation, and less common in really new ones too (since builders expect most people will just use the master socket for broadband and people use mobiles for calls).
Old houses should have 1 extra socket in the master bedroom at the very least, because the master of the house was expected to plug a phone in there, back in the days. (my parents and grandparents all have one).
Incidentally, this is likely to be the furthest room on the furthest floor, so it can be a good place to add a wifi access point for coverage.
Depends on what you class as “old”. Remember that a great many British homes are 50+ years old. You certainly wouldn’t have considered having multiple phones in a house when they were built. So the extra socket was added after it was built.
Adding extension sockets was a very easy job. So easy that many homeowners did it themselves.
So it’s very likely your parents and grandparents bedroom phone wasn’t part of the original wiring.
I’ve lived in two apartments with the setup OP described, and they were both built 2003-2006. But I’ve not had it anywhere else, so it does seem constrained to a specific window of apartment developments
It's a setup seen in a lot of new builds flat from the 2000s and 2010s, which is a very large amount of the housing stock in London for flats (There has been so many constructions!).
Yes, the author's assertion here is nonsense. A case of someone with a very small window of experience being certain that what he's seen couldn't possibly be an outlier - must instead be normal for everyone.
The article also has a constant theme of putting people down because of something he doesn't understand. The Helldivers 2 developers are "idiots" because he doesn't understand the reasons for asset duplication in games. Simple daisy-chaining of slave sockets off the master is "incomprehensible", "pointless", "arbitrary" and "a mess"; the person who did the wiring is an "idiot". It all comes across as unfortunately quite arrogant.
Reading the blog post and comments here from fellow UK inhabitants I am shocked to see how phone lines are considered common when I always ever lived in places with only one of them for the entire place (3+ bedroom houses on two floors).
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last. This makes the UK simultaneously one of the cheapest and one of the most expensive countries to get Internet.
Andrews and Arnold[0] offer gigabit, but I'm not surprised the author hasn't heard of them; they never advertise.
This is due to advertising standards. They are required to advertise "average speed", although how this is actually calculated is nebulous.
A&A not advertising can just say what the link speeds actually are on the product pages.
Other ISP's could do this too, but it would cause confusion having one figure on the advert and one figure on the product pages, and they might get in trouble if they link to the product pages in the adverts.
Couldn't they just list link speed and average speed (however that is measured, before or after protocol overhead for example) as two separate lines on the product page?
It’s still nonsense. Everyone doing FTTH is using passive optical networking (PON, or NGPON or XGPON or XGSPON or …) which actually has a line rate of 10Gbps. It then uses TDMA to give each subscriber enough time slots to send and receive at a particular speed. My ISP, Ziply Fiber, just gives every subscriber enough time slots to send at the advertised speed _after_ protocol overhead, even at gigabit and higher speeds. If you buy the 500 Mbps service it really will speed test at 500 Mbps. If you buy gigabit it really will test at 1000Mbps provided you have faster than gigabit Ethernet between you and the router. The router that they rent connects to the ONT at 10Gbps, so speed tests done on the router itself always test at the speed you’re subscribed to.
At 10Gbps and above they start using direct–attached fiber (DIA) instead, so the speed you subscribe to is the line rate and it will test lower due to protocol overhead. But if you can max out a 50Gbps link then I think the overhead will not bother you much.
They also allow residential customers to run BGP and use their own addresses. They’re a great ISP.
A&A is expensive for me. 1Gbps down and 115Mb/s up with a 1TB/mo quota for £75/mo. I get similar speeds (with no download limit) from BT for £34.99/mo.
Community Fibre is £63/mo for symmetric 5Gbps and "unlimited data".
I'm locked into a contract with BT for another year but I don't have any real need for anything faster than 500Mbps right now.
I'm focusing on making my homelab network 10GbE to cover the day that I do manage to get >1Gbps broadband.
Not only do A&A offer good speeds, their customer service is exceptional. There are chat rooms on which engineers and enthusiasts reside and if you phone them you get an engineer.
It's not true either. Openreach offer a 1.6gbit/sec product now, which ISPs can resell.
I don't understand why he says it's the most expensive places to get internet. You can get 900mbit (really 1gig pre overheads) for ~£30/month on openreach infrastructure which is not the cheapest in the world but it certainly isn't the most expensive.
And if you're covered by an altnet (who build their own infrastructure instead of reselling openreach) like cityfibre, community fibre or netomnia you'll get far faster speeds for even less money.
A lot of these providers do rent the poles and ducts off openreach, but then lay their own fibre over it
It's not just A&A either. I know I'm lucky as I live in an area that's had a relatively new CityFibre XGS-PON install, but I've got 2300Mbps symmetrical and 5000Mbps is coming Q1 this year.
Virgin Media also do Gigabit plus speeds and you can upgrade to symmetrical (they don't seem to advertise this though). That's definitely a household name.
I used to live in the UK and thought double-digit broadband was pretty good, actually.
Now I live in a slightly remote corner of Europe and I had 6Gbps fiber installed yesterday, for €15/month. (Nominally 10Gbps, measures as 6, which is... pretty good, actually.)
A lot of British houses have coaxial cable TV in all bedrooms.
Ignoring the horrible taste of our forebears that were putting TVs where they don't belong, that does enable carrying gigabit ethernet using MoCA technology.
Excellent article! I think another take away is that we should all take a class on electrical wiring safety. Wiring is fun and very interesting, but can be very dangerous. Classes and the literature that comes with it are invaluable. However, Youtube and the literature will only take you so far, safety wise. (I'm not affiliated with any tech school, I learned by being in the trades under the guidance of trained electricians, with test stands and real life testing.)
Yeah the era of non-Ethernet/Wi-Fi NICs died off decades ago with the last ADSL cards. Nowadays I'm not sure if OSes even support creating drivers for anything non-Ethernet (especially where to provide the config UI for your non-standard protocol).
What I've seen done recently to work around this is to combine your custom chip with a standard Ethernet NIC on the same board. The computer just sees an (off-the-shelf) NIC that's always connected, and all configuration happens via IP by browsing to a specific private IP (this kinda insists on NAT though).
Linux would support it for sure. It even still has support for several old NICs (it was only the other day I saw a news item about some old protocol from the early 90s finally being removed). But I can imagine no one wants to develop a new such driver.
And if you want to sell to consumers you need Windows and Mac support, and then it easier to just adapt to existing interfaces.
I've been eying the phone sockets too wondering what I can do with them. Think i'll end up running fiber though because internet is 1.6 so gigabit would be a bottleneck.
As a side note - it's quite difficult to find white fiber cables. They're all bright colour so that nobody cuts them accidentally but I don't want a pink line running along the walls haha
I can second this 0.9mm transparent stuff, I've run it successfully and it's very subtle.
Depending on the media converter pair you're using, you probably want UPC instead of APC. I also found that the cheapest generic bidi media converters tend to be SC, so I want with a 30m pre-terminated SC/UPC cable. Total cost (cable plus media converters) was about £30.
The other advantage of fibre is subtlety if you can't (or don't want to) run it through walls. 0.9mm diameter and light enough to attach it with occasional dots of glue instead of needing cable clips.
My internet is pretty good, I can easily saturate my (rather dated) WiFi at about 30MB/s. But Steam downloads are extremely slow for me (can't remember the numbers but much less).
I always assumed Valve themselves were just stingy with bandwidth. Something else funny going on?
It might have detected the wrong country/city for you. Check Settings -> Downloads -> Region
Otherwise it's just your WiFi being patchy. I think Steam is doing "friendly" bulk download, it slows down before the connection is saturated, to avoid disconnecting your wife/mum/siblings watching Youtube or on a videoconference.
I usually (but not always) saturate my downlink with Steam downloads... even back when I was a Comcast customer and paying for ~180MB/s (~1500mbit/s) asymmetric service.
I believe that I have noticed that smaller games (~a few hundred MB or maybe a GB or two) will download quite a bit slower than large games, but I'm not very confident in that observation.
> I believe that I have noticed that smaller games (~a few hundred MB or maybe a GB or two) will download quite a bit slower than large games, but I'm not very confident in that observation.
You can see that on the HellDivers screenshot, it takes 20 seconds to reach 500 Mbps, because TCP takes a while to adjust the bandwidth and is very conservative. TCP and home computers are not designed to make use of gigabit connections.
> ...it takes 20 seconds to reach 500 Mbps, because TCP takes a while to adjust the bandwidth and is very conservative. TCP and home computers are not designed to make use of gigabit connections.
I very much doubt that that is an artifact of TCP. I can go from nothing to 10gbit/s symmetric in 100->200ms when running Iperf3 over TCP against another one of my LAN hosts.
And, back when I had a 1.5gbit/s Internet downlink, it took far, far less than 20 seconds to reach > 500mbps for big Steam downloads and other such well-provisioned things.
Comcast has Steam server(s) colocated within their network in my immediate area. I’ve observed that less popular downloads tend to connect to external servers in the next state over.
I've noticed this company also has coax modems. I wonder if they will work better than MOCA adapters. I've tried MOCA at my house and the quality of the signal is not good, connection keeps dropping every 10-15 minutes for no apparent reason...
You may have had filters on your lines or just really poor quality connections/cables. I’ve been using MoCA in my home to bring internet up from my basement to the second floor for a few years and it’s been flawless. Consistent 1gbps, no drops, 1-2ms extra latency compared to Ethernet wired devices.
>>Phones are wireless, which is too slow to test anything.
As a random aside - I've been surprised by this recently. I got a new shiny Wifi 7 router(TPlink BE550) and my Samsung S24 Ultra can sustain 2.2Gbps over wifi, both to and from the router. At this point I'm not sure if that is the actual limit or if it's limited by the 2.5GbE port on the router since that had my NAS connected to it and I was testing transfer to and from it. And it wasn't like an inch from the router either - it did it while in my hand, on the other side of the room with me sitting on our sofa.
When it comes to wireless, top speeds are misleading and the wrong way to look at it.
You can have the shittiest link possible with lots of dropouts and still get a decent speed test result because in between the dropouts you get max speed and TCP/etc is designed exactly to smooth over such packet loss, and browser-based tests aren't able to get low-level UDP access to defuse that.
Yet such a connection will be unusable for anything real-time, think gaming or videoconferencing. That's why so many people's connection still stutters on Zoom/etc calls - the "good" connection and super fancy router their ISP sold them isn't actually that good despite speed test results being satisfactory.
Honestly, most UK houses start out with a single ISP-provided wifi router, situated somewhere close to where the data cable enters the building.
For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.
The issues arise when you've got a larger building, thick walls, lots of things competing for the same frequency band, a less great router, or you need the very lowest latency.
> For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.
It often isn't - it's just magic like TCP/etc that is doing its job and making it feel that way for bulk non-interactive transfers. But get those people on a Zoom call or anything real-time and it'll be painful (double pain if they've subsequently got terrible bluetooth headsets and/or accidentally use their laptop's internal mic).
Doesn't help stupid ISPs split their 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands on separate SSIDs so now devices can't switch automatically and you've either got people constantly hogging the 2.4 band or barely trying to hang onto the 5GHz one in conditions where falling back to 2.4 would be appropriate.
Roughly 15 metres. Almost certainly a cabling issue, although frustratingly the electrician who installed it says that they think it's fine. I've got a ubiquiti U7 AP connected to a USW lite 8 via POE, and it negotiates GbE, but then falls back to E.
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet.
Which might well be true where he is (ie he's limited to the equivalent of shared HFC or xDSL), but certainly isn't true everywhere.
I've had gigabit fibre (full duplex) in London since 2016, and the building had it before I arrived. It also has incredibly low latency to the major data centres of London, and not a lot more to most of western Europe.
Symnetric gigabit connections can be hard to come by in London.
If you're served by a niche fibre provider (e.g. Hyperoptic, Community Fibre) then you're golden.
There's Virgin (think Comcast) with paltry upload speeds due to the cable tech. Understandable though not ideal.
Then there's the OpenReach full fibre network with paltry upload speeds due to... ??? there appears to no good reason, other than not wanting to cannibalise their leased line business. Does anyone actually know why they don't offer a symmetric product like the niche fibre ISPs?
Virgin actually have upgraded a huge swath of their footprint from cable to XGS-PON (probably coming up to 10million homes now, with the full program due to finish in a couple of years).
However, due to their comically bad billing systems (i believe they licensed a billing system off the cable modem headend provider) they do not allow their existing users to switch from DOCSIS cable to FTTH. This has been a problem for a couple of years now. They've spent billions on civil engineering work to blow fibre everywhere but existing customers can't order it because their billing system is tightly coupled to their cable modem system. They offer up to 2gig symmetrical over XGSPON FTTH.
Re openreach I think it's a bit of protecting leased line revenue, a bit of faster upload speeds actually being quite niche - the market is driven by headline download speeds - but most importantly they rolled out GPON not XGSPON.
GPON "only" has 2.5gbit/1.2gbit available to the entire network slice it's on, which can be up to 32 homes (theoretically many more but openreach have that as the maximum I've seen).
This means one gigabit uplink can nearly saturate the entire link for the network slice of 32 homes.
They do have plans to upgrade to XGSPON (though I suspect they may skip that and move to 50GPON instead). XGSPON has 10git/10gbit and 50GPON 50/50 available to the same 32 homes.
They are just about to start a pilot of XGSPON in Guildford which has up to 8gig symmetrical available.
It's not a huge amount of work to upgrade PON versions, it just requires new line cards, and new ONT boxes for each house and can run side by side with existing GPON.
> Does anyone actually know why they don't offer a symmetric product like the niche fibre ISPs?
Short version: The UK regulator OFCOM defines ultrafast internet as 30 Mbps download speed. That's why UK internet providers (openreach and related) have deals starting as low as 30 Mbps and they can't be arsed to provide a faster speed (unless you pay £££).
Even if they are available on your street, each building and individual flat has to be connected. For blocks of flats that's not always straightforward.
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last.
Gigabit is so much more expensive (obviously it's gone down a lot). In London 2016, I had ADSL broadband at 16 Mbps for £12/month. That building didn't have fiber at the time. When fiber finally happened... it started as 30 Mbps fiber for so much more money.
This is actually something where you are often better off outside of cities. The areas serviced by newer providers who are using the government grants to offer fibre to places without it and are actually running new fibre tend to offer much better prices and speeds.
E.g: One of them offers 900Mbps symmetric for £40/month (with a deal for £30/month for the first year). Meanwhile the legacy providers via OpenReach will only give you 700 down/100 up for more money, and require a two year contract.
The only real downside is most of them will CGNAT you, but most do offer IPv6 too, and mine offers a static IPv4 for £5/month more.
Fibre rollout in London was (is?) really, really patchy. If your building had it you were lucky. If you hadn't had it already you may well have found it impossible to get at retail.
It's actually very well covered now. The problem is apartment buildings. The buildings owner has to give approval to allow openreach/virgin/hyperopic to run new fibre thru the building, and it's extremely time consuming for network providers to negotiate these individually per building.
If you're not in an apartment building you'll almost certainly have FTTH coverage from someone in London.
The govt is consulting on new laws which would give apartment building residents the power to demand the freeholder of the apartment building allow fibre installs, which would make this far easier.
Am I the only one who gets amazing performance from Mesh wifi (only one AP is connected to Ethernet) and have absolutely no need to run Ethernet around the house ....or use old telephone wires?
My current apartment also had a bunch of phone sockets spread around... In a couple of hours, I've removed the existing wires and passed Ethernet wires. Quick, easy, ubiquitous and cheap.
Ok, the writer could be renting a house and not wanting to do that. But sincerely, in Portugal, the landlords couldn't care less. Maybe in the UK, they really, really love their phone sockets and don't want to replace them, don't know.
UK landlords also don't tend to invest anything in their properties.
But in the UK case, that means the old phone cables are stapled to the skirting boards and painted over with gloss paint, and the sockets were wallpapered around in the 1990s. Pull the old cables and sockets off, the paint chips off and you've got holes square holes left in the wallpaper.
And although UK landlords don't give a shit about upkeep that costs them money, they rarely miss a chance to deduct money from the deposit.
If you are in the US and need to get networks into various rooms, MoCA 2.5 is amazing! Since most US houses are wired for TV in all rooms, it works out well.
What I did in all my rentals (in Germany) was to outright run new cable. All you need is a bunch of drills - if you want to pull Ethernet, a 10mm drill will be sufficient, if you want pre-fab LC fiber you'll need a 15mm drill (better 17mm), and if you want to pull pipe (which I prefer) a 27mm drill for a DN20 pipe. And when you move out, take out the pipe, put some plaster over, smooth and paint, and no one can ever tell what has been there.
I'm so afraid that my landlord (a big company) will use ANY excuse to rob me of my deposit when I move out... lol, even though I'm a member of Mieterverein.
The same landlord whose workers outright forgot to install the water heater in the kitchen the day I got the flat, and __painted shut__ the bathroom window. LMAO.
Though I can only second this -- use transparent fiber and be creative in where you route it -- and nobody will be able to tell you did something 'naughty' in your rental.
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets.
Really? I've never seen that many in a house. Most might have one extension in a bedroom upstairs. Which is usually the one room where you don't want a data connection. Crazy to think when I was little it was common to have a phone downstairs and another upstairs in the master bedroom. Who the hell wants to make a phone call from bed?!
I think it's easier just to run cables, tbh. If you can't put them in the walls/floors then hide them in plastic conduit. You can do a pretty good job with a bit of planning.
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets.
That's nonsense. Not in a new house. Maybe one from 20 years ago.
Anyway nice find. It's always annoying when there's a product that you know should exist but simply doesn't.
I'm currently trying to find a reasonably priced Bluetooth Auracast receiver so I can play audio to multiple rooms from my phone (no way am I investing in Sonos after all their bullshit).
There should be loads of these but the only ones I can find seem to be battery powered wearable devices aimed at tour groups, or hundreds of pounds.
The 10 phone sockets are pretty unlikely, true, but 0 Ethernet? Probably more common than not. If anything, modern builds are doing less ethernet than ever because they assume everyone is just using WiFi.
Ah yeah I quoted too much. I meant the phone sockets thing. Zero ethernet seems to be the norm still unfortunately because most people do just use WiFi.
Worth knowing in this context:
Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair. Now, that pair must meet much stricter criteria to be suitable, such as Category 5 (for 100Mbit) or Category 5e (1000Mbit ie Gigabit) - but it really is just twisted pair cable, merely a tighter specification than your phone.
Suppose you are a sparky (electrician) and you have some jobs where you are to install telephone connections, some where you put in "Ethernet" (presumably 100baseT would be fine) and some they specifically want you to wire for Gigabit.
You could go to your wholesaler and buy a reel of Cat3 phone cable, a reel of Cat5 100baseT Ethernet, and a third reel of Cat 5e Gigabit cable, and take the right one for each job. So long as you do this flawlessly you can probably save a few pounds every year by using a slightly cheaper cable for some jobs.
Or, you can buy one reel of Cat5e and use that for all these jobs and since it's the same reel you can't have the wrong one and don't need to check paperwork to know you've put the correct cable in a duct etc. Thought that was a phone line but now the client insists it's data? No problem, they're the exact same cable, just smile and agree.
When I bought the place where I live now I wanted GigE to this desk, even though the DSL comes into a different room. I didn't love the idea of cutting holes in walls but I was resigned to maybe needing that, except there's a phone extension in this room (like the author says, we do love phone extensions) and so that room the DSL comes into has a twisted pair to here. I opened up the box, and I'm like huh, that's Cat5e, and sure enough this entire building was wired with Cat5e because like I said, why not, it's basically the same cable, why carry a separate reel?
So I changed the face plates from telephone to Ethernet, and I'm done.
I had the same thing in the house I bought, it was a nice surprise… there were 6 different phone jacks around the house in great locations for Ethernet (WiFi access points or just for a computer), and they all led down to the furnace room where they attached to a punch-down panel (basically they were all spliced into each other.)
To my surprise they were all cat5 cables. With the house being built in 2003 this was surprisingly forward-looking.
I capped all the cables that were on the punchdown panel and put a switch in there instead, and replaced all the wall jacks with RJ45, and bam, working gigabit around the house, including PoE for my WiFi access points. Still haven’t had to punch any holes in the walls.
Same; this was the nicest unexpected surprise about buying this place.
Condo built in 2006 with cat5 . Two bedrooms + living room all wired with rj11 phone jacks. Just snipped those off, wired up rj45, and attached the other ends in my utility closet to a patch panel with rj45 as well.
I don't know if it's just cat5 or 5e, but it saturates a 2.5Gbe link and in-wall cable length is about 15-25 meters.
And you're lucky with that build time, if it was more recent it'd probably be CCA or even CCS. When we redid our place a few years ago I went and bought a drum of plenum cable and told the electricians to use that, so I know what went in there. Overprovisioned slightly but who cares, I had a whole drum of cable and a 48-port switch so may as well use it all.
The only problem with this is that for some god-afwful reason, anything built before the 2010s (?) placed electrical and phone sockets at hip level instead of ankle level. So you're staring at ugly sockets all day.
So sadly you still have to punch holes.
Then again, it isn't that much of a bother if all you have to do is punch a lower hole, relocate the socket and then plaster both holes up and repaint. Especially if you make it a weekend job to do the whole house at once. Or rather, the way I look at it is that it's a weekend job that will improve how the house feels for decades. Doing blind wiring (gutters) for all the ceiling lights falls in the same category.
I think electrical/phone sockets were placed at that level because many telephones were designed to hang on the wall (docking onto and covering up the faceplate) for easy access. My childhood home had one that we used this way before we got a landline.
You can always put a blank plate over the old one and save yourself a mess of plastering.
Make it several weekend jobs are you get multiple lots of kudos from the wife :-).
Alas my 2009 condo conversion was wired with coax to every room instead. I've been using the coax drops to pull Ethernet cables.
Ahh! Don’t replace your coax with Cat5e/6! Coaxial cable has excellent noise rejection—better than Cat5e.
Instead, get a MoCA adapter like this one [1]. You can get 2.5Gbps over coax!
[1] https://a.co/d/e2FYGWj
I was resigned to running cat6e up three floors because there was only coax and I needed a wifi AP up there. Came across the moca solution and it's great. I get flawless 2.5gbe from the basement switch to the third floor over coax. It's basically a little device that connects at each end of the coax and cat6 goes in and out.
Cat 6 would be better though so I could run POE from the basement switch to power the wifi AP, and instead I need to go do a much more complicated switch (cat6) -> moca adapter + power brick to power moca adapter -> coax -> moca adapter + power brick (cat6) -> POE injector (with power brick) -> wifi AP. SO I'm adding at least three power bricks to the setup, which is annoying. Otherwise it would be one cat6 drawing POE from the switch and powering the AP.
You can run power over coax! You can buy power-injecting splitters that were used to power old analog cameras. They basically just connect the cable to the 12V, sometimes directly but usually through some current-limiting safety switch.
MoCA devices have a 100 Ohm internal resistor at the end to limit the cable echoes, so they are not affected by the DC on the cable.
It's worth remembering that UK coax is typically lower quality than that used in the US where these are designed to be used, due to UK coax only needing to transmit terrestrial TV compared to cable in the US.
+1 on MOCA 2 being excellent to solve gaps in wiring. We bought a 6000 sqft 2001 house built with in-wall RJ11, lots of coax runs and some Cat5e runs (but not enough). Due to the size the house, the electrical, HVAC and cabling is roughly divided into two halves with separate electrical panels, HVAC pads, etc.
Unfortunately, all the RJ11 and alarm wiring runs to a closet in one half while all the coax and Cat5e run to a closet in the other half - with no RJ11 endpoints near the Cat5e/Coax closet and not Cat5e/Coax endpoints near the RJ11 closet (sigh). I tried Powerline data and it only works well in adjacent rooms and not at all between the halves due to separate electrical panels. Fortunately, there were a lot of coax runs set up for two separate nets (18-inch satellite and a huge attic antenna for OTA broadcast). So, by repurposing the now-unneeded antenna coax, MOCA 2.5 gbps mostly saved the day by filling in where the Cat5e should have gone but didn't.
I'm not replacing it; I am asking cat 5 to the same jack by replacing the one port faceplate with a two port one.
MoCA us interesting but that's a lot of equipment at each end compared to just a cable.
Also, it has far more potential to improve over time. A coaxial cable can carry terabits worth of RF bandwidth.
Yeah nah
And some cat5 cables will take gigabit speeds even though they’re not rated for it if they’re high quality enough too.
Cat5 is rated for Gigabit over spans of up to 100 meters.
The 1000Base-T spec predates Cat5e.
Oh cool
> some cat5 cables will take gigabit speeds
Especially if the run is relatively short (<=100ft) and it doesn't run parallel to noisy power cables.
My mother moved into a retirement village a while back and I was pleasantly surprised to find Ethernet jacks in every room, in some cases more than one. There was no patch panel or anything which was a bit odd, maybe hidden in a service cupboard, but initially I just needed to get a connection from the router to the bedroom and established that these two jacks there were connected. Hooked it up, nothing worked no matter what I did.
On the next visit, with diagnostic gear to look at the wiring map, I found out that the Ethernet jacks were wired up for phone lines. Some genius had decided to run Ethernet to every room, with RJ45 wall sockets, but wired it up for phone lines, so it was simultaneously unusable for either phones or networking.
My place had previous owners who had the foresight to thread the wire through PVC tube behind the wall. This means that when I wanted to add extra access points, it was easy to thread another cat5 through and pull it to where I wanted.
There were a lot of tech enthusiasts who put them in.
I know more than a few who did this, ethernet cable pricing had just fallen at some point to make this more accessible.
> Telephones only want a twisted pair. Ethernet, popular with businesses for decades, also wants a twisted pair.
This is why there are two wiring standards, T568A and T568B, with A being compatible with multi-line telephone systems:
> The T568A scheme is based on the older USOC (Universal Service Order Code) standard, which was used for telephone wiring before the advent of high-speed data networks. The USOC standard assigned the green pair to the first line and the orange pair to the second line of a two-line phone system.
* https://www.comms-express.com/infozone/article/t568a-and-t56...
> As of 2018, ANSI/TIA still [recommended] T568A for residential installations for plug-in backward compatibility with old technology like fax machines or a plug-in base station for wireless phone handsets. If you are not using any such devices, or have no intention of plugging ancient RJ11 plugs into RJ45 wall jacks like you would a “phone jack”, then it comes back to personal preference again.
* https://www.truecable.com/blogs/cable-academy/t568a-vs-t568b
* https://www.flukenetworks.com/knowledge-base/application-or-...
As long as both ends of the cable are the same, it does not practically matter which variant is used.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568#Wiring
There are also A-B crossover cables (though a lot of NICs can do auto-crossover nowadays):
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_crossover_cable
Gigabit Ethernet require 4 twisted pairs i.e. 8 individual cables. 100Mb Ethernet requires 2 pairs i.e. 4 individual cables. At least in standard configuration
There is a standard for Gbit over a single pair: Single Pair Ethernet (SPE). But it's more of a rare automotive thing, so I'm also confused how the grandparent made this work.
Used on rockets too. Harnessing is a major contributor to non-payload mass.
I have converted 'RJ11 phone plugs' to Ethernet in multiple rentals to the delight of the landlord. One should also not that event Cat 5 can carry 1Gbps (instead of 100Mpbs) and Car 5e can carry 10Gbps (instead of 1Gbps) depending on the length and other factors such as which switch is used.
Ethernet is usually two pair, but cat5 has four. When I moved into a new apartment building I found all the phones were cat5 wiring so I was able to redo three of the outlets to do phone and an ethernet jack, then put a switch in the coat closet, which is where the wiring guys put the junction box.
I can’t recall if I put them back when I moved out. I must have, but I’ve no recollection of doing so. I think I left the junction box in the closet though.
I pulled several thousand lines as a kid starting out in Gen-X era and you are completely correct with one scalability and labor cost issue:
Real cat5 and ethernet connectors just work and phone cable and phone plugs just work, but if you mix them you'll get all manner of expensive labor costs trying to figure out jury rigged solutions.
At one client they used two pair for business phone system, we're on a cable pulling team and one guy punches down the blue and green pairs the other side punches down blue and orange pairs (essentially a 568A vs 568B violation) and we spend SOME EXPENSIVE TIME trying to figure out why the cable toner "proves" we are on the same cable so it can't be a wiring fault.
Or the stereotype of the halfway colorblind guy at the far end working in the ceiling, on a ladder, in the dark, swaps the orange and brown pairs as happens sometimes.
Oh even funnier is there's always "that guy" who is too lazy to pull an additional cable to a new phone, so he steals some pairs from a nearby phone, somehow knocking out both phones in the process. Such a headache.
Labor for troubleshooting miswired cables/jacks is SO expensive its just cheaper at work to install phone lines using phone line parts and ethernet using ethernet parts.
The arrival of VOIP phones around Y2K, somewhat after my time, must make life so much easier. And now nobody uses wired phones everyone has a smartphone.
At home if you're doing one line and its a hobby so your time is free, then your strategy does work.
I think they also lay extra fiber strings for that reason as well, most cost is doing this, some extra wires will always be helpful !
This is a fantastic result, but I am dying to know how the G.hn chipset creates the bit-loading map on a topology with that many bridge taps. In VDSL2 deployment, any unused extension socket in the house acts as an open-circuited stub, creating signal reflections that notch out specific frequencies (albeit usually killing performance).
If the author is hitting 940 Mbps on a daisy-chain, either the echo cancellation or the frequency diversity on these chips must be lightyears ahead of standard DSLAMs. Does the web interface expose the SNR-per-tone graph? I suspect you would see massive dips where the wiring splits to the other rooms, but the OFDM is just aggressively modulating around them.
A view from the the debugging tools since you asked https://thehftguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/screenshot_...
I don't think there is anything too fancy compared to a DSLAM. It's just that DSLAM are low-frequency long-range by design.
Numbers for nerds, on top of my head:
* ADSL1 is 1Mhz 8Mbps (2 kilometer)
* ADSL2 is 2Mhz 20Mbps (1 kilometer)
* VSDL1 is 15Mhz 150Mbps (less than 1 kilometer)
* Gigabit Ethernet is 100Mhz over four pairs (100 meters). It either works or it doesn't.
* The G.hn device here is up to 200 MHz. It automatically detects what can be done on the medium.
Gigabit Ethernet uses four pairs per direction. It uses the same four pairs in both directions at the same time.
1000Base-T uses two pairs per direction, actually. It's full duplex. Each port sees two TX and two RX pair.
There are four pair of wires in the cable. If you use all of them for TX, you can't receive.
> There are four pair of wires in the cable. If you use all of them for TX, you can't receive.
No, you absolutely can use them all for transmit and receive at the same time. The device at each end knows what signal it is transmitting, and can remove that from the received signal to identify what has been transmitted by the other end.
This is the magic that made 1000Base-T win out among the candidates for Gige over copper, since it required the lowest signaling frequencies and thus would run better over existing cables.
1000Base-T uses four pairs in both directions at the same time. It does this through the use of a hybrid in the PHY that subtracts what is being transmitted from what is received on the wires. 802.3ab is a fairly complicated specification with many layers of abstraction. I spent a few months studying it for a project about a decade ago.
> 1000Base-T uses two pairs per direction, actually. It's full duplex. Each port sees two TX and two RX pair.
you may be thinking of 1000Base-TX (TIA‐854) which uses 2 pairs in each direction, similar to 100Base-TX (IEEE 802.3u). whereas 1000Base-T (IEEE 802.3ab) uses all 4 pairs in both directions.
basically, the -TX are dual simplex with a set of wires for each direction and -T are full-duplex with the same wires used in both directions at the same time.
That's not true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE%E2%8...
Relevant section:
(Slight edits)It's been many years since I implemented G.Hn hardware, but if memory serves the chipsets are typically able to split the available bandwidth into 1 or 2 MHz wide bins and choose different symbol densities and FEC levels for each bin. If you have a bin that has horrible reflections, you don't use it at all.
I also recall that the chipsets don't do toning automatically, and so it's up the the management device to decide when to re-probe the channel and reconfigure the bins.
I know nothing about DSL. But G.hn uses OFDM, and OFDM can do a cute trick in which it learns a complex number to multiply each subcarrier signal by. Since the subcarrier signals are literally just Fourier coefficients of the signal, this can equalize all kinds of linear time invariant signal issues so long as they’re reasonably compact in the time domain as compared to the guard interval. And I imagine that G.hn has some way to figure out which coefficients (subcarriers) are weak and avoid using or relying on them — there are multiple ways to do that.
You're right, G.hn will have the same issue as DSL here; all of the tiny bridge taps from the extra jacks will create small dips in the bitloading.
That being said, with 200MHz of spectrum to play with, the impact on rates should be negligible. With the 200MHz G.hn phone line profile (48KHz tone spacing), we get about ~1.5Gbps, so you can take some lumps and still get ~1Gbps throughput.
One big advantage though, G.hn is natively p2mp and each jack could have it's own G.hn endpoint.
> Basically, you need to follow the tracking regularly until the package is tagged as lost or failed delivery, which is the cue to pay import fees.
> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!
Wow.
Another Brexit bonus
It’s no coincidence those that championed Brexit are those that wanted a weaker Europe and weaker U.K.
That’s why the majority of tax payers were against it, the majority of educated people voted against it, the majority of working people voted against it, the majority of people alive today who voted voted against it
Yet we still got it.
Bloody poor people deciding for themselves what they want. Shouldn't get a vote unless you have a degree and property. If only they'd had the sense to listen to their betters.
And those poor people are objectively poorer because of Brexit. But as long as there's fewer foreigners coming in, then they're happy?
There’s more foreigners coming in. Which was “project fear” back in 2016.
Those poor people voted for something for which they were explicitly mislead. The results of Brexit have in no ways made their lives better.
The elites made the mistake of actually putting political power in the hands of the British people for once.
Catastrophic error on their part, they won't do that again
It's never to late to rejoin, we've all learned a lot about foreign propaganda in the last decade.
Someone at Davos commented "It took you 7 years to negotiate your way out, it will take you 7 years to regret and then 7 years to negotiate back in".
All while losing all goodies and setting the economy back a decade.
But the remaining wealth of the country has successfully been extracted in the form of overpriced and not-fit-for-purpose utilities, transport companies, taxes, and so on and given to corporate interests. From their perspective it's a resounding success.
Didn’t need Brexit for that - it’s been going on for decades.
with most of the privatisations triggered by EU law!
You must have forgotten Thatcher
she was certainly a fan, but the spark for the match for almost all of the privatisations was EU/EEC directives
if the UK had never joined the EEC those industries would likely still be under government ownership
(for better or worse, water certainly was a disaster, but telecoms and airlines seem to have gone reasonably well)
and rail was done post Thatcher, with her on record as saying it is "a step too far"
As a regular user I see rail privatisation as successful.
In fact the only failure is water, as it was just privitised regional monopolies with no competition.
Electicty/gas? Tell me you’d be happy with British Gas when you aren’t allowed to use Octopus
Phone? Of course that’s a success, both mobile and also wires.
Airline? Freight?
Busses are too fragmented in regional areas, but the services tend to be better than they were under council run.
I wouldn't strictly put all of them at the feet of the EU. While what you say is true, the Conservatives were frothing to privatise whatever they could. Labour just went along with the process (and I'm no Labour supporter either).
The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.
And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).
> The one I won't forgive was our water. I believe we're the only developed country to have privatised our water, with disastrous consequences.
100% agreed
there's no market or competition at any level (even RAIL had somewhat competitive bidding for franchises)
they're just Henry VIII style granted monopolies, with the results are the same as they were 800 years ago
(well, other than the civil war bit)
> And that one can be squarely laid at the feet of Margaret 'Fucking" Thatcher (real name).
water was another EU triggered one: the EU (EEC) kept writing new water directives, and the government couldn't figure out another way to fund their implementation
This is wrong.
A large chunk of the “classic” UK sell-offs were 1980s to early 1990s: BT (1984), British Gas (1986), British Airways (1987), and by 1991 regional electricity and water companies had been privatised.
A lot of EU single-market liberalisation in network industries ramped up later (late 1980s/1990s, and beyond). For example, telecoms EU “competition” directives begin in 1988/1990 and are amended through the 1990s. Meanwhile, the UK government had already announced plans to sell major chunks of BT by 1982, and BT’s privatization was implemented through UK legislation. England/Wales water privatization was created by Water Act 1989.
If the government couldn't figure out a way to fund their implementation, then either the government was insufficiently-wily (in which case, they could've hired wily consultants), or it was genuinely impossible without taking money from another pot. If the latter, then selling to a for-profit corporate structure was the worst possible decision they could've made.
I'm absolutely certain mountains of useless consultants were involved
We need a whole generation to die off before that becomes likely.
In the mean time we should move closer when the opportunity rises.
I'll bite on this one. I've been saying to anyone who will listen here in the states: my generation, the Boomers, needs to die out and/or get the hell out of the way. We're trashing almost everything because of a cult of hero worship.
While I used to agree with you, based on the most recent polling, Gen X and Gen Z are both farther right than Boomers are these days. So we're fucked long term too.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53923-how-would-brita...
Look at age breakdown
Don't be so sure that the next generation automatically gets less indoctrinated.
Facebook at least documented content interactions out in the open. With tiktok you don't notice what kind of content someone consumes.
There are tens of thousands of people working a full time job just to influence people in democratic countries to act/vote against their interests. Then we have hundreds of thousands more in advertisement industry with their own interests, mainly in line with goals of US companies.
There is reason for optimism because if everyone is on tiktok it becomes "uncool" again but still it is a very dangerous tool.
> "Paid the fee online, 20% VAT + a few pounds of handling fees ... It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020."
Why don't Amazon and other online retailers just charge you the UK VAT when you order and ship it "VAT paid", so it doesn't get held up at the border?
That's how it works in New Zealand. You pay New Zealand's GST when you place an order, not after it arrives. Any online retailer that ships over a certain volume of products to New Zealand is required to implement this.
This is exactly how it works in the UK for purchases worth £135 or less which are shipped directly from outside the UK. The retailer has to charge UK VAT as if it were a domestic sale at the point of sale, and there is then nothing to pay at customs so no hold-up for that. It's only consignments worth over £135 where it ends up being stopped for payment at import.
On top of that, Amazon and other large online retailers also have a huge distribution and warehouse network domestically in the UK already so for higher value items mostly they import themselves to their warehouses before sale and then sales are purely domestic.
> ”It's only consignments worth over £135 where it ends up being stopped for payment at import.”
But why only under £135? This seems like an arbitrary number, and a very low limit.
Strangely, if I order from Amazon UK to Finland in the EU, the VAT is already all included and it comes directly to me, no customs. Even for some third party sellers too.
It would be far better if we could get a government in who would use Brexit freedoms to scrap VAT and all the other sales and import taxes. They are an administrative nightmare and both unnecessary and ineffective. Stick to simpler taxes.
The problem is that we have one side who loves all things EU and the other that loves all things neoliberal - both of which are obsessed with sales taxes for some reason
VAT is not really all that complicated and accounts for around 15% of the UK tax take. Moving that to income tax would mean a substantial redistribution from working people to pensioners and incentivise moving more production abroad.
Import taxes are pretty complicated but unilaterally removing them would mean we would have nothing to negotiate tariff free access to foreign markets.
Vat is stupidly complex. Try doing an international conference for example. Not to mention the impact on imports as the OP discovered.
Quite why people think tax stays in one place is beyond me - all costs are passed on and tax is no different. Putting the tax on employer NiCS for example would result in roughly the same business collection and payment, but with a significant reduction in administration and the tax gap since PAYE collection is more efficient.
And quite why obtaining foreign items more expensive is seen as a negotiating point could only be brought up by somebody who hasn’t thought through how floating exchange rates work. We want more stuff coming in and less going out. That’s how you win in international trade. Exports are a cost remember.
As we see from the US, it is the local population that pays the cost of import tariffs and taxes. The currency exchange rate fixes the rest.
A single country's tax policies don't exist in a vacuum. Let's take as an example a new car that costs £36,000 including 20% VAT. If the UK removed VAT and put the cost on employer NICS then British built cars would still cost roughly £36,000 but foreign built cars would now cost £30,000 and what little of the British car industry is left after Brexit quickly ceases to exist as the multinational companies that run them shift production elsewhere to remain price competitive.
Trump's broad based tariffs are dumb because much of what is being tariffed is not really manufactured in the US anyway. But used in a more targeted manner they can help ensure a level playing field for your country's products in the countries you have trade agreements with. Otherwise what incentive is there for another country to negotiate a trade agreement that gives equal access to says cars manufactured in either country?
Fixed exchange rate thinking I’m afraid. Try it again but with a floating exchange rate - understanding that importers into a currency area pay the local area costs of exporters from that currency area. Reducing the tax thereby means there is more sterling available for exporters to earn.
You will find then that the exchange value is a function of productivity not currency numbers.
Moving VAT to employers NICs will impact those operations that use a lot of labour and few machines. That favours those operations that have higher productivity.
Therefore the physical cost of exports will reduce and the value of imports to the local population increase.
If that reduces the number of exporters then that is of benefit to the nation, as there are more people available to work on domestic production.
With floating exchange rates you don’t need “trade deals”. The exchange rate sorts it all out for you.
Putting rocks in your own harbour is always a silly idea. If other nations play dumping games then you fix that with subsidies not tariffs.
Weird, I've never needed to do that - Royal Mail or whichever courier is handling it will either put a note for customs payment through the door (Royal Mail/Parcelforce), or send me an invoice via post or email (any of the other couriers).
Ah, mate. I sure wish you'd figured this out and told me about it 10 years ago. I fought with this exact same issue for years.
I live in an old stone farmhouse with my office in a stone garage across a nice poured concrete driveway. There's wires from A to B under all that, but nobody except an unknown electrician from the 80s could tell you even where they come out at either end.
Powerline kinda worked, with crap download speed and just abysmal upload (0.1mbps max), and I limped along with it for years.
When we upgraded to Fibre, that left the old phone line spare, and as luck would have it went straight from the office to the router cabinet in the house. But 80s electrician guy didn't use Cat5, so my genius attempt to use it as ethernet cable ended up slower than the powerline.
My eventual solution was a crazy powerful point-to-point wifi beam blasting straight through the 3 foot thick stone wall to a receiver in the garage below the office. It sets birds on fire from time to time if they fly through it while Helldivers is downloading an update, but it gets the job done.
Still, I might look in to getting one of these things as an upgrade.
Thanks for the writeup!
Another solution: run ethernet cables outdoors on the ground.
You can do ethernet cables outdoors from your router in your house to your router in your office. Either thin cables that go under doors, or outdoor rated ones, both can work fine.
This same approach can work inside a house as an alternative to mesh networking or running cables through walls. The cables don't have to be invisible (underground or in walls) when you have tough constraints, unless you want them to be.
The direct line across would get run over by cars. Indirect routes would still have to cross pavement and look ugly.
And then there are still those six feet of stone that needs drilling through to get the cable outside and back in.
> The direct line across would get run over by cars. Indirect routes would still have to cross pavement and look ugly.
Search for "cable protector ramps"
> And then there are still those six feet of stone that needs drilling through to get the cable outside and back in.
Thin cables designed to run under doors or windowsills are an option. Search for "flat ethernet cable"
It seems like you prefer your setup for good reasons, and these solutions above are both ugly, but I still wanted to note to others reading this that workarounds exist.
Yeah, routing is still a major PITA.
It's just that almost anything is better than wifi in concrete/stone houses. I can see point-to-point outside with an unobstructed view being reliable enough. But point-to-point through 3ft of concrete is [HN is a neglected Xennial hobby and doesn't support emojis]!
Certainly worth reconsidering wired when that P2P hardware goes EOL.
There is equipment that will dig a small tunnel like thing under concrete, avoiding needing to destroy your driveway (assuming there is space on either side) . Won't be cheap, but it's possible.
Six feet?
3 feet X 2 walls
Dude lives in a Scottish castle.
How about using fiber optic cables for this? I saw a few videos on YouTube showing the installation for home internet
To what end? The runs aren't going to be long enough for fiber to provide a benefit, and the transceivers are more expensive for consumer use like this.
Much easier to conceal. https://lightera.com/invisilight-home-fiber-kit/
"across a nice poured concrete driveway"
I've worked with DB people and running lines under driveways for telco and cableco is BIG business and they will not find your request to bury fiber or cat5 to be even remotely unusual.
The bad news about directional boring is they usually want "like a kilobuck" just to show up. Its a lot of heavy equipment and a lot of dudes to operate it all.
The good news is if they're already down the road they'll come by and bore for like $20/foot because its a small job (usually they only charge $10/foot for long runs)
Permitting depends a lot on where you live, some places treat it as a cash cow and they will brutally milk you, others don't require a permit at all. The equipment takes up a fair amount of space on each side, probably more than you'd expect. Scheduling is like dealing with an arborist. "OMG I need this partially collapsed tree removed immediately its an emergency I have homeowners insurance please arrive in the next hour" well thats multiple kilobucks "Meh please remove this tree sometime and I don't care when" well thats like $250, probably less if cash.
I've seen people spend thousands of dollars on DB or crazy laser/wireless comm gear to avoid spending hundreds of dollars on a stone mason. Try not to pay someone to DB under a stone wall, its usually cheaper to hire a stone mason twice and he will leave the wall in better condition than before you started. All masonry is temporary unless its maintained. Similar logic might apply to driveways, most concrete cracks so if you're hiring a guy to fix the crack you may want to bury a conduit before he fixes it. Replacing an entire driveway is expensive, replacing a sidewalk sized path is surprisingly cheap. If you want sidewalk poured (like for a walkway in your garden or around a swimming pool) its about $50/foot and a driveway would have to be thicker and better prepped, but the section could be narrower than a sidewalk. The point being don't accept a DB bid over $50/ft because its cheaper to replace the concrete at $50/ft.
There are simpler ways to get a conduit under a driveway than a huge DB machine. I'm boarding a flight, but look up using water (dig a pit on either side of the road, attach water hose to piece of conduit, and push the conduit under the driveway using the water to erode a hole as you go.)
The there are also smaller hydraulic ram tools designed for pushing a pipe under a driveway.
Probably should have mentioned that it's not a driveway in the US sense, where it's a strip of pavement with dirt on either side. More like a courtyard that butts up against the main house and guesthouse. There's no digging under it from the side.
Incidentally, what does "DB" mean in the above?
I would guess directional boring. They can start a bore and sort of drive it around corners.
20 years ago when they were putting fiber in all over the place here, they would bore around a whole cul-de-sac in one go. In several cases breaking every water service line on their way through.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_boring
It probably means "Direct Buried" or "Direct Burial,, see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-buried_cable
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets. There is still no regulation that requires new build to get Ethernet wiring (as far as I know).
I think this is true in the sense of there's no regulation it's just up to the developer, but my house (new build, 2021) has an RJ45 patch panel downstairs with 4 ports that lead to 4 areas of the house.
This was actually a surprise to me when I got the place because when I was speaking to the sales associates they had 0 clue what I was talking about when I enquired about network cabling. If I had known they were installing it as standard I'd have asked for more ports in more rooms, but hindsight...
But yeah, there's also 4 phone sockets as well, which I don't use. This solution might be interesting to try out, but phone sockets are in the same place as where the ethernet sockets are and I've no real need to expand in those rooms right now.
My new build (2023) would have had 0 ethernet if I didn't request it. It's so cheap to wire it in and so useful for the future I don't know why it's not just standard.
It had phone sockets though, for whatever reason.
When I was configuring the house the person I was with to do it didn't even know what ethernet was.
One thing I wished I could have picked was where all the ethernet terminated. It's all gone to a little cupboard where the fibre enters the house. That's convenient I guess if you had just one socket in the living room where you stick your Wifi router. But when I've got ethernet to all the rooms, I'd rather have it all in a back bedroom so I can stick a server rack in there. I guess I can still do that, it just means I need 2 switches now.
The vast majority of people don't care and would never use ethernet sockets, as long as they can get a good enough wifi connection to their smart TV for Netflix etc. then they're happy and most of the time wifi can do that.
It's only really gamers who are likely to consider using ethernet and avid online gamers don't make up a significant percentage of the people who buy new build homes
Which is a shame, because it puts a huge support burden on ISPs. Every time some WiFi interference slows someone’s internet down they’ll end up blaming the ISP and calling support.
When looking at new build houses a year or two back (in the UK), I saw some stuff that made no sense to me: they installed some by default, but ran it to only the lounge and bedroom 1, the house also had a dedicated study (labelled as such by them) which did not have an ethernet run to it, and they refused to let you option in any more, very weird.
It's for the TVs, to provide network for live TV boxes.
It might be worth pulling off those phone sockets and seeing what the cable is. Quite often it'll be cat5e and if so it's a simple upgrade to change to an rj45 keystone. Especially if it uses Euro module faceplates.
I've been using this for a couple of years in my home now, with the same German Gigacopper devices. It's rock solid, very much unlike my attempts at power-line ethernet in the past. I used ethernet over coax in my last house too, which was also great.
I think many (most?) UK houses could get gigabit ethernet to at least some rooms without any new wiring. It's strange that the devices for doing it reliably are hard to get, but powerline ethernet modems are sold everywhere despite barely working in most houses.
My experience with powerline is they can work well for low activity, but they all overheat if you actually use them continuously, and the advertised speeds are extremely misleading as they are before error correction (which is very significant) and for the whole network.
My guess is that the nature of them being in a power plug means that they struggle to isolate things from the mains for safety in a way that doesn't also make them hotboxes.
I didn't notice overheating, but there are a quite a few different products on the market.
The modest speed (~50MBps at my place) was then ok-ish, but the (variable!) latency of a couple of ms was annoying (it tended to break pacemaker/corosync cluster communication). And every once in a blue moon they stopped working altogether and needed to be un-plugged.
Worst, for someone interested in analogue electronics, they emit (of course) a huge amount of electrical noise into the power lines.
I had a similar issue but instead I opted to replace all the wiring with CAT5E. I used the old phone wiring as a pull-wire to get the CAT5E through the walls very, very slowly. CAT5E was used as I needed all the flexibility I could get and 1Gbit was enough at the time.
The RJ11 panels on the wall were replaced with RJ45, crimped everything. Took a full day of carefully pulling wires but in the end I got gigabit all over the home.
The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.
You're the reason why the author's assertion that there is a huge untapped market for this in the UK is probably wrong; most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
There might be some market for a simple point-to-point device sold by the likes of Argos, zero config and including all the right cables already, aimed at people who can't or won't upgrade their cabling but want to enable their kid to play Fortnite.
But... there is no clear patent protection available, so as soon as someone successfully creates and markets that device, the Tiktok Shop clones will appear.
Pulling cables through walls is really easy for some construction styles and really difficult for others.
Can involve taking up floorboards and drilling horizontally through beams, plumber style. Or cutting slots in masonry with angle grinders. Sometimes there are existing wires you can tie to and pull through, sometimes the existing wires were stapled to the walls.
On the bright side everything about the ethernet wires and connections is trivial. Like demo to a friend in 20 minutes and let them walk off with the toolbox and they'll be fine wiring their house, if the construction style is amenable.
Agreed. I tugged on each phone wire a to see if they were free. And I got lucky on all of them.
One of the problems I had was a kinked conduit where concrete was poured on top, or at least that is what I assumed. Was a bit difficult to get the “knot” (where the phone wire was connected to the CAT5E) through that spot.
The twisted pair (should be two but one pair is broken...) installed in the 60s in my home are so stuck you will never, ever, get those out without ripping the wall apart. Originally the coaxials should have gone through the same pipes, as there should be enough space, but there is so much gunk in there it was impossible and they layed out a new tube though the floors and ceilings in the corner. For fun and because institutional knowledge is for suckers, they tried the same with fiber and simply gave up so now we are in limbo because computer says we have fiber but we don't.
In the 70's house I bought, some of the coax and power was literally cast into the concrete.
most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
"Technical" isn't the issue. 200 year old stone houses are the issue. If you can't punch through it with wifi (and thus have this issue), I expect you're not going to be able to poke a cable through either.
For an example, to get from my house router to my office, you'd need to punch through a 3 foot cobble & mortar wall, trench across 30 feet of poured concrete (and tidy it up somehow), punch through another 3 foot thick stone wall, then "pull cable" up to the office. There's an old phone line from A to B that went in 30 years ago when the place was first renovated, but you can tug on it all you like and it's not going anywhere.
If I'd seen this article a few years ago, my life would have been a lot easier.
The holes are already made if there are phone cables going in every room. The idea is to reroute ethernet cables through the same holes and guides and replace the sockets.
It is the same when fiber is installed in an old house, you usually reuse tv antenna/phones entries/guides and exit holes.
Maybe cut a slit across your concrete driveway with a diamond concrete saw and drop fiber in, seal with some polymer afterwards?
Yeah, it'd have to be something like that, and nomatter how well you did it, it'd be noticeable.
Fortunately, (as I mentioned in another thread,) I got a powerful enough point-to-point wifi connection to blast through the stone walls and get decent results.
With old houses you may also have restrictions on what you can do. BT send some to my friends' house every so often to upgrade to FTTP. They say they are going to drill through walls etc. until its pointed out the building is grade II* listed and there are rules and permissions needed at which point they go away.
> most of the people technical enough to set this up are also going to be technical enough to pull new cables.
It's really not that simple when you realize that the average UK flat has 3+ sockets and the average house has 5+ sockets (speaking from my own experience). Some daisy chained and some direct.
Besides, a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.
> a lot of people are renting and cannot touch their wire.
Nobody's going to complain about a backwards-compatible upgrade (you can put phone sockets back when you leave - nobody has to know there's cat 5/6 behind it).
Yeah but if you fuck it up it's a much bigger deal
You can ask a pro to do it if you aren't confident enough. It is not an expensive task.
One of the big problems with pulling cable in the UK is the abundance of solid internal walls. Running cabling in my house involves lifting floorboards or drilling through multiple 2ft thick stone walls. It’s worth doing while you’re there but so destructive if you’re not
> The next owner will probably call me an idiot for using CAT5E in 2019.
Unlikely, they’ll probably be delighted that you went to the effort at all. While not ideal, Cat5e is usually good enough for 10 gigabit over shorter lengths. It’s not unusual for it to work perfectly on wires as long as 20 or 30 metres.
I am curious if you have some tricks for attaching pull-wire and CAT cable. Also, did you use any lubricant for the CAT?
I tried the same approach to replace COAX cable with CAT but the tie just broke off like 10cm before the socket exit [1], and CAT is stuck there now.
[1]: https://i.imgur.com/myW6IIq.jpeg
Relatively successful was slotting the cat5 jacket, cutting off two or three of the pairs, twisting/tying the remaining pair to the old wire, then sliding the jacket back over the join before wrapping in a conservative amount of electrical tape. You want the join to be similar width to the cable and preferably flexible.
I have a suspicion that pulling fishing line first is the right play if you can manage to connect it to the old wire. Flexible, very high tensile strength, small.
In addition, in one room I ran two CAT5E cables as there was conduit along the entire way. So I took a CAT5E cable double the length of the conduit, stripped the outer sheath in the middle, folded the cable to get a loop and then attached the phone cable to that using the individual inner wires. Plus tape.
I wish I knew about this when I lived in a house without Ethernet sockets! I needed it in the attic for my PC and servers and all I had were slow, unreliable TP-Link Powerline adapters. My first speed test gave me 37.1Kbps (after painfully loading Cloudflare's test page). On a really good day I could get 3MBps. I'd get disconnected multiple times a day and I had to try all sorts of methods to get the adapter to connect again. I had to write a program in the end to tell me if I didn't have internet because the Powerline broke or my DNS server broke (normally it's always DNS but turns out it wasn't) :D
I had a phone socket in that room and I had already discussed the possibility of converting it into an Ethernet socket but decided it's not worth it because everything ended up in a cupboard far away from my router. These adapters would have solved the problem nicely!
By the way, I have more fun stories. The cabling in my current house (which has Ethernet sockets) is still miserable. I spent a year working with my PC over USB tethering to my phone until I finally called an electrician to find which of the 11 dangling cables in the cupboard went to my office...
One day some wires in there were slightly moved and the internet got disconnected because they were badly crimped. Nothing was working so in the end I got an RJ45 connector and managed to get the wires in there.
The apartment block I live in in Ireland has converted phone sockets into Ethernet using similar converters, except (a) it was in 2004, so 10Mbit base, (b) they ordered whole socket replacements, eliminating the need for separate box outside the walls, (c) the goal was to buy 1 business high speed line, and split it across all apartments, which became obsolete when ADSL, DOCSIS, and later FTTH became affordable options.
I heard the state of the wiring also wasn't great, sometimes apartments had twisted pair wires, while some straight wires, some only have 2 or 3 out of 4 wires connected, etc.
Good to know this technology still exists.
This wouldn't be legal in my country unless all the apartments had one owner, because the telcos have a monopoly on communications.
The law says one person can't stretch a cable over to his neighbour, because they would need a licence for that (although if you did do that, who would know?).
My parents shared coaxiale television for years with the neighbors. Technically illegal but there is no way to know with analogue television.
I think our phone lines must work differently, the entire infrastructure is owned by one company (BT) who must lease it to other companies. So they can do things like this, as everyone needs a router at the end to access it and that's how they charge per customer.
There is a separate cable network, again one operator (Virgin), who don't lease it out.
In the UK, pull the socket front off and look what the wires actually are.
I have seen electricians use cat 5 to carry phone lines several times. It is a mixture between having cat5 already in stock, and future proofing I think.
If it is cat 5 then just put an RJ45 socket on it.
As others have said, you can also try running ethernet on a phone line, you might not get gigabit, but you might get more than what is coming into your house!
The third point is you may be able to use the phone cable to fish a cat 5 through (depending on where it is). Electricians tend to be very good at this!
That's also a good point that the Network hardware does not care about cable categories.
If it plugs into your card the card goes "OK, lets see if 1000baseT fits on this?" the cables don't have a little chip or anything saying "I'm not suitable for high speed" the card will figure out whether this looks plausible and just do it.
At the turn of the century I was putting new Cisco gear into a building (which has since burned down, not related) that had been built a long time ago and so it didn't have Cat 5e cables. I was fitting switches which were state of the art at the time (IPv6 experiments), and they didn't have a 100Mbit option because that was legacy, so you'd plug this ancient looking 1980s cable designed for 10baseT into a switch, and in most cases once it's connected the switch and the network card at the far end both go "Aha link, can I do 1000baseT over this?" and conclude yeah, Gigabit just works. There is a setting to say "No, only do 10baseT" but why set it? Users don't want slow Internet.
Unless somebody went very cheap and strung literal bellwire (which was never rated for a telephone but would probably work) or your distances are very long, you will almost certainly get 100Mb and if there actually are four pairs you will most likely get Gigabit.
> the cables don't have a little chip or anything saying "I'm not suitable for high speed" the card will figure out whether this looks plausible and just do it.
You're actually wrong on all of that ^^
The cables actually have a rating to say what they are suitable to. See the markings on the cable: category Cat5/Cat5e/Cat6 + frequency range 100/250 Mhz + insulation UTP/FTP/STP/mix.
Ethernet cards don't negotiate, they typically only check whether the pairs can transmit any signal. You could end up in a situation where they go for gigabit and it doesn't work well.
Fortunately, the main issue for signal transmission is loss over distance. Ethernet is designed to work over 100m every time in a noisy industrial environment. You've got a pretty good chance for it to work on a short run, even with poor cables.
The alternatives being discussed ADSL/VDSL/G.hn actually detect the capability of the medium and adjust the transmission rates and frequency to give the maximum possible speed. IMO they are much more advanced technologically and much more interesting. (Ethernet is doing exactly 250 Mbps on one pair, G.hn can do up to 1700 Mbps on the same pair, automatically adjusted, the article is getting 1300 Mbps which is insane!)
It's true that the cable says 5e on it but your device doesn't read the printed reading so it doesn't matter.
That printed category tells you what was tested, not whether the cable works in practice. Which makes sense, but leads to the consequence I described.
Worthwhile to point out: The Cat5 cable required for gigabit Ethernet is merely twisted pairs with no insulation, which is pretty much a dumb basic cable (with 8 wires). That's why any cable can work in practice.
I don't know how possible it is to find a really bad cable (untwisted) and it might work on a short length anyway. (Your 1980s office cabling must have been 8 wires if you were able to get gigabit later, so it was far beyond basic phone wires or Cat1 from the time).
Sure, they will have been bundles of 4 pairs and I suppose we could say that is a matter of luck, it will have been installed from the outset in anticipation of networking - there's a period in the late 1980s when everybody is iterating on what will soon become 10baseT and the people in that building would have known all about it - but there's no reason back then to know 4 pairs will be an auspicious choice rather than 3 or 6.
So yes, those cables though they weren't Cat 5e because it didn't exist when they were manufactured, also were not basic phone cables, and I believe when the building was formally opened it had "ground breaking" 10Mbit Ethernet to every laboratory.
Even if the cable is cat 5, telephone sockets are often daisy-chained from room to room. So it can still be a pain to get a point to point connection if it goes through several sockets.
Is there a way of testing two points to see if they can communicate with each other before I go to the trouble of wiring to a rj45 endpoint?
I'm not convinced socket A can talk to socket B when, for example, socket B is in an extension, or... or...
I’ve tried that over fairly short lengths at home, and ended up with flapping even locked to 10HDX
You are a god send! I have the same issue. My house (2013!!!) is fully phone wired but has zero Ethernet. I have 3 floors which each running on a different phase (the electrician wired it like that). I have a power line adapter in my fuse box to connect directly to the three phases. But I can’t stream content or large files. Even worse the power line adapters bring noise into my power sockets. A guitar amp gets ground crackling etc. will look into this solution!
I see that they also offer a coax solution. Which would fit just as well I have a tv connection in every room which also connects in the second box in the utility room. And I don’t need it ;)
When we bought our house (1950s semidetached) it needed a full electrical rewire. I’m so glad I asked the electricians to run Ethernet all over the house at the same time, including to the ceiling in some rooms for WiFi access points.
Can confirm the bit about phone sockets. Our old house came with a phone socket by the bed in both bedrooms. Also a TV aerial socket in the master bedroom (not in the second bedroom though, no TV for you!)
You don’t need niche hardware to do this, if you’re handy with a soldering iron! You can quite easily modify devices intended for use on AC lines, for any conductor!
http://www.helicopting.de/
I used this to get an Ethernet link to the roof of a building using an old antenna feed line someone had left.
Here in the states, when we moved into our house that was built in the late 60's, every room had a phone jack. The exterior of the house had cabling strung onto the back and one side with lines installed, through the brick, into the separate rooms. There was also a line or two in the attic. Sometime in the early 90's, after I fired Southwestern Bell, I striped away all the wiring. Two of out kids had new homes built, both were wired with Ethernet cable only for communication.
<I can’t stress enough how much we love our phone sockets. It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.>
My wife and I rented a flat in Amsterdam a few years ago. I noticed that there was a phone jack in the water heater room, which I thought was strange. Now I know. (I was looking for the broom, BTW.)
> I noticed that there was a phone jack in the water heater room
I wonder if it was "future-proofing" for some kind of modem-based automation/monitoring system.
The German suppliers they link do European centric MOCA too! Looking seriously at these guys - the previous owners who renovated put decent CoAx absolutely everywhere, 4 BT lines for the outside office, and 0 Ethernet in.
Some of the OP's RJ11 runs apparently only have two wires connected, which may be a UK thing (or just a 'bad contractor thing'). Hence resorting to a solution that that can put broadband on two or four unshielded phone wires (probably based on ADSL-type signaling).
In the US, houses built to code in the last 30-40 years generally have 4-wire runs to RJ-11 jacks. TFA doesn't mention it but it is possible (although hacky) to gang up two four conductor phone wires into an 8 wire Ethernet run. It's a hack because those phone wires aren't even shielded as well as basic Cat5 but it can still work for relatively short runs. With more people using mobile phones, wireless phones or IP phones instead of POTS, that's leaving increasing amounts of in-wall RJ11 dormant. It might not work, but it's pretty easy to test and much easier than running new wires.
My latest house, built about eight years ago, came with CAT6A cabling for all of the phones. That made it really easy to just replace all of the RJ11 jacks with RJ45 (or 8P8C if you like to call them that). They've been providing POE+ gigabit Ethernet for the past seven years, and I'm about to upgrade them to 10GBase-T.
I envy you. Must be nice to open up a wall jack and be pleasantly surprised instead of bitterly disappointed :-).
I recently built a vacation property and could choose what to install. Initially, I was thinking CAT6A but after getting some good quality plenum-rated 6A to play with, I discovered it's surprisingly thick and doesn't bend very easily (minimum corner radii to avoid shield damage are actually specced) and it's not exactly easy to DIY new connectors on them correctly if you don't do it all the time.
So, after really considering the max throughput I'm ever likely to actually use, I decided to go with some good CAT6. It wasn't even a cost thing, as the difference was negligible. It was just practical reality. None of the runs are very long and I should be able to get up to 10gbps on 6A, although I doubt I'll ever use more than 2.5gbps (only using 1gbps today). One factor is the property is off-grid except for AC, so data is via StarLink anyway and fiber won't ever happen out there. While LEO satellite and terrestrial cellular speeds will increase in coming years, when more than 2.5gpbs is available - it'll almost certainly be priced to maximize B2B profit and we probably wouldn't pay that for a vacation house (because this is the US, not someplace that prices broadband rationally like Korea).
Thanks for sharing this, first time I've seen such device, I'd like to add other options that I experienced and would suggest;
- Open your telephone socket, if the actual cable has 5 pairs, it's probably a cat5e cable. It can do 1gbps with a RJ45 connection, just replace the plug and connect tou your device to check, yo ucan get a cheap ethernet cable tester too. If it has just 3 pairs, it can probably do 100mbs automatically with most ethernet capable devices. - If you just need to connect 2 devices, you may probably just use existing cables to do it. More than 2 devices would not work. - If it doesn't work, all those cables probably go to a box, find it and check if they are connected, if not yo ucan just crimp the ends together.
Other alternatives: - As others mentioned, MoCA devices are also able to deliver 1gbps, and there is a higher chance that you may find them in most rooms, and they are almost always connected, so it shoudl be plug&play. - Powerline adapters novadays not too bad as well. I was able to use them in a 30 eyar old home, 3 floors up to provide 500mbs.
I think I told this story plenty of times now, but Wifi got so good, that even though we have network cables everywhere, basically nothing is hardwired in our household any more other than the TV and a few sonos speakers that were close enough to the outlets.
We have about ~100 devices connected to our home network according to my router and other than 6 devices, they are all on Wifi. I would never have expected that, but the reality is that it just got so much better over the years that I cannot be bothered with actually wiring things up any more.
That's in part because the outlets are not necessarily aligned well with the devices that would need to be connected, and then all kinds of other shit that is going on with home ethernet.
In 2020 I wrote about my USB-C adapter breaking ethernet [1]. It is still one of my most read blog posts and I get emails from it still, because apparently even in 2025 actually hooking up a USB-C ethernet adapter will cause quite a few switches to fail.
Long winded way of saying: our Ethernet does Gigabit because I never upgraded and has almost no devices left. Our Wifi does >4Gitabit because it was easy to swap and most devices are Wifi anyways.
[1]: https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2020/7/6/usb-c-network-hubs/
Wireless is just fine for devices connected to the internet but as soon as you want to connect multiple devices to do a heavy load, backing up or those kinds of things, wireless really does still take a hit depending on access point density.
I'd like to mention that the cat5e cable present in your walls is rated to 2.5Gbps, and would often still work at 5 or 10Gbps over shorter runs in a home. 2.5gb equipment is very cheap nowadays. I got a couple of no-name switches under $40 each and they all work perfectly. Wired networks will always have better consistency and latency characteristics, too, if that matters to you.
It used to matter to me a few years ago but somehow I just no longer care enough.
Depends a lot on your house construction. I have a fancy Ubiquiti U7 Pro (on one floor, and a nanoHD on the other) but performance is crap all over my house because all the walls are reinforced concrete. In the hallway under the AP I get 1.6 Gbps on my phone but walk a few meters away into the living room and you're way under 200 Mbps because you passed 3 concrete walls.
Everyone comes home from a day out and you have several phones struggling to sync the 4K videos you shot meanwhile someone is streaming TV, open up my laptop to check the photos and now it wants to download updates...
I was able to option in Ethernet jacks where I lounge about in the living room, bedroom... - I have USB-C power bricks with built-in hubs so I stuck in cheap 2.5 GbE adapters there. Plug in to charge as normal and I automatically get 2 Gbps to the internet with no interference from anyone else, even works on iPhones with no setup.
Surely your access points are hard wired?
I have three, only one is hard wired (the source). That's because I only have gigabit ethernet at the moment and the wireless backhaul is faster than the cable.
Right, but where do you live?
I live in a 100m^2 apartment and the signal in the main bedroom is quite bad.
In most European countries, houses are built out of brick and concrete. The signal doesn’t easily reach the all house.
In my parents house, built out of granite, it’s even worse.
> Right, but where do you live?
A 200 sqm apartment in Vienna, mixture of think walls and drywall. The signal goes everywhere with three well placed mesh things.
This has been my experience as well. I did have signal issues with cheap consumer router+AP combos, but after switching to Ubiquiti hardware coverage and signal have been great.
You disconnect the phone cable from the socket, attach a 50m Ethernet cable to it and pull the phone cable from the other side of your house.
I just got the fiber installed, took less than 10 minutes, excluding the replacement of phone port to Ethernet port.
Doesn't work if the cable is stapled in somewhere or under layers of paint
I'm so confused why there is no discussion about RJ45 connector being backwards compatible with RJ11 (the RJ11 connector fits appropriately into the RJ45 socket) and that the G4201TM should have a RJ45 socket (like G4202TCP) instead of RJ11 to be most widely functional/compatible (even though you still can use a RJ11 cable with a RJ45 wall socket to overcome this, but you could use RJ45 cables too)...
(models https://www.gigacopper.net/wp/en/home-networking/ )
I had cat5e in my house but for phone line usage. It wasn’t daisy chained here, it was all tied in with a punch down panel in the master closet. I re-terminated the punch down side of each cable to ethernet and same with the keystone jacks in each room, and after switching to hardwired gigabit, I got into higher performance networking. I wanted to upgrade to at least 2.5 throughout the house, but maybe 5 or 10 if possible. Everything said cat5e isn’t shielded enough for 10 gig, but I tested every run with iperf3 at both tcp and udp and was surprised that everything was able to handle it! So I added a 10 gig switch to the master closet and now I have 10 gig throughout my house. Upgraded the internet to 5 gig. My NAS speeds are fantastic now and it’s really great to never have to wait on anything. The limiting factor now is the hard drive speeds!
Lots of sympathy with this plight. Great to hear that someone has done the needful and rendered MoCA style modems over pairs of copper. I'm probably a customer for that.
I'm currently running MoCA over spliced coax as part of the local connection and not amused by the 5ms latency on it. Also running 100mbit over cat3 I found in a wall which does work, but cat3 in another wall can't hold 10mbit. That link actually can hold 70mbit of vdsl but after a nearby lightning strike slagged various hardware I've moved the vdsl modem back to the BT wires entry point and run the output through some fibre.
And there's a wifi bridge between two other points. And some ethernet running outside the building. Previously also ethernet-over-mains that I might bring back now that I've learned what spanning tree protocols are so the periodic reboots they inexplicably require can be tolerated transparently.
Also the connection to the internet itself is crap so bonding vdsl, starlink and 5g through the openmptcprouter project. Just lots of redundancy and self healing hacks all over the place to give an observably solid connection.
Which is a rambling way to say that if you're in Britain and your network connection brings you sorrow, it can be forced to be acceptable with application of more time and money than other countries require.
> the periodic reboots they inexplicably require
I've had powerline adapters with uptimes measured in years (basically in between power cuts). I think yours might be defective. They absolutely do not require reboots.
Certain brands of g.fast and g.hn devices are apparently so buggy as to be essentially defective, yes.
In France (and probably everywhere) there is currently massive deployment of FTTH (fiber to the home) and removal of copper lines, since a decade.
Does this mean we could have kept the good old copper lines from 60 years ago and still enjoy 1 Gbit internet in residential areas?
Tangentially, the fact that we're still using gigabit connections in our homes and especially offices in 2026 is weird. Gigabit Ethernet is over two decades old, but it's still the most common standard. Both 2.5 and 10 Gbps are effectively niche technologies.
I get it; it's "good enough" in most cases, like USB 2.0. But it still sucks we haven't moved past it.
I connected self powered crank telephones to my home phone wiring for use as intercoms. Crank one and the others ring. Pick up to engage the battery powered talk circuit and you're chatting with Mabel like it's 1915. I did replace the old dry cell batteries with lithium camera cells so I don't need to think about them for a decade.
We have an Ethernet run that's not in use right now. I had a Cisco ATA from earlier experiments so I picked up 2 old phones with proper bell ringers and now the kids can call up from the living room to my office when it's time for dinner, they love it.
I lived in a building in Norway that had phone lines from like 1924. As it was declared as historic it was very difficult to dig newer cables. So ISP tried to use the old cables. At best one can get 10 MBit/s with a lot of packet loss. Eventually everyone switched to mobile internet. With 5g and stationary antenna it was possible to get 300 MBit/s with no packet loss and sub 10ms ping to local servers.
> It’s the normal procedure to buy things from Europe since Brexit 2020. It’s actually quite shocking that Royal Mail still hasn’t updated their tracking system to be able to give a status “waiting on import fees to be paid online”. They had 6 years!
Just click "reconnect" and re-join to the EU (and Schengen area)
I am saying this because I have some friends living in UK, but I do not have the Visa for UK. Although I am on a work/residence-permit in EU, it is just extra hassle to get the visa. I am instead waiting for my years to finish to apply for citizenship...
I have been using the exact same G4201TM devices at home for approaching five years now to do much the same: reuse some unused telephone wiring for a meaningful purpose. They are rock solid and have needed exactly zero attention since being installed.
> It’s not uncommon to have a one bed flat with 2 phone sockets in the living room and 2 phone sockets in the bedroom and a master socket in the technical room. It’s ridiculous.
This sounds a bit farfetched to me. I'm 40+ and lived in the UK all my life. Growing up we only had 1 phone socket in the house for the first few years until my dad got an extension put in upstairs. I've lived in multiple cities since then and no flat or house I've lived in has had more than 1 phone socket including the house I eventually bought and live in now (which is not small by most UK standards).
I’m a similar age and have also lived in a few houses over the years. I’ve never lived in any place that didn’t have more than one phone socket.
Though I have noticed multiple sockets are less common in really old houses which haven’t seen much modernisation, and less common in really new ones too (since builders expect most people will just use the master socket for broadband and people use mobiles for calls).
Old houses should have 1 extra socket in the master bedroom at the very least, because the master of the house was expected to plug a phone in there, back in the days. (my parents and grandparents all have one).
Incidentally, this is likely to be the furthest room on the furthest floor, so it can be a good place to add a wifi access point for coverage.
Depends on what you class as “old”. Remember that a great many British homes are 50+ years old. You certainly wouldn’t have considered having multiple phones in a house when they were built. So the extra socket was added after it was built.
Adding extension sockets was a very easy job. So easy that many homeowners did it themselves.
So it’s very likely your parents and grandparents bedroom phone wasn’t part of the original wiring.
I’ve lived in two apartments with the setup OP described, and they were both built 2003-2006. But I’ve not had it anywhere else, so it does seem constrained to a specific window of apartment developments
Interesting. Every place I've lived in has been older than that so that makes sense.
It's a setup seen in a lot of new builds flat from the 2000s and 2010s, which is a very large amount of the housing stock in London for flats (There has been so many constructions!).
Yes, the author's assertion here is nonsense. A case of someone with a very small window of experience being certain that what he's seen couldn't possibly be an outlier - must instead be normal for everyone.
The article also has a constant theme of putting people down because of something he doesn't understand. The Helldivers 2 developers are "idiots" because he doesn't understand the reasons for asset duplication in games. Simple daisy-chaining of slave sockets off the master is "incomprehensible", "pointless", "arbitrary" and "a mess"; the person who did the wiring is an "idiot". It all comes across as unfortunately quite arrogant.
Reading the blog post and comments here from fellow UK inhabitants I am shocked to see how phone lines are considered common when I always ever lived in places with only one of them for the entire place (3+ bedroom houses on two floors).
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last. This makes the UK simultaneously one of the cheapest and one of the most expensive countries to get Internet.
Andrews and Arnold[0] offer gigabit, but I'm not surprised the author hasn't heard of them; they never advertise.
[0] https://www.aa.net.uk/
This is due to advertising standards. They are required to advertise "average speed", although how this is actually calculated is nebulous.
A&A not advertising can just say what the link speeds actually are on the product pages.
Other ISP's could do this too, but it would cause confusion having one figure on the advert and one figure on the product pages, and they might get in trouble if they link to the product pages in the adverts.
Couldn't they just list link speed and average speed (however that is measured, before or after protocol overhead for example) as two separate lines on the product page?
It’s still nonsense. Everyone doing FTTH is using passive optical networking (PON, or NGPON or XGPON or XGSPON or …) which actually has a line rate of 10Gbps. It then uses TDMA to give each subscriber enough time slots to send and receive at a particular speed. My ISP, Ziply Fiber, just gives every subscriber enough time slots to send at the advertised speed _after_ protocol overhead, even at gigabit and higher speeds. If you buy the 500 Mbps service it really will speed test at 500 Mbps. If you buy gigabit it really will test at 1000Mbps provided you have faster than gigabit Ethernet between you and the router. The router that they rent connects to the ONT at 10Gbps, so speed tests done on the router itself always test at the speed you’re subscribed to.
At 10Gbps and above they start using direct–attached fiber (DIA) instead, so the speed you subscribe to is the line rate and it will test lower due to protocol overhead. But if you can max out a 50Gbps link then I think the overhead will not bother you much.
They also allow residential customers to run BGP and use their own addresses. They’re a great ISP.
As others have said, Fibre is a postcode lottery.
A&A is expensive for me. 1Gbps down and 115Mb/s up with a 1TB/mo quota for £75/mo. I get similar speeds (with no download limit) from BT for £34.99/mo.
Community Fibre is £63/mo for symmetric 5Gbps and "unlimited data".
I'm locked into a contract with BT for another year but I don't have any real need for anything faster than 500Mbps right now.
I'm focusing on making my homelab network 10GbE to cover the day that I do manage to get >1Gbps broadband.
Not only do A&A offer good speeds, their customer service is exceptional. There are chat rooms on which engineers and enthusiasts reside and if you phone them you get an engineer.
It's not true either. Openreach offer a 1.6gbit/sec product now, which ISPs can resell.
I don't understand why he says it's the most expensive places to get internet. You can get 900mbit (really 1gig pre overheads) for ~£30/month on openreach infrastructure which is not the cheapest in the world but it certainly isn't the most expensive.
And if you're covered by an altnet (who build their own infrastructure instead of reselling openreach) like cityfibre, community fibre or netomnia you'll get far faster speeds for even less money.
A lot of these providers do rent the poles and ducts off openreach, but then lay their own fibre over it
It's not just A&A either. I know I'm lucky as I live in an area that's had a relatively new CityFibre XGS-PON install, but I've got 2300Mbps symmetrical and 5000Mbps is coming Q1 this year.
Virgin Media also do Gigabit plus speeds and you can upgrade to symmetrical (they don't seem to advertise this though). That's definitely a household name.
I used to live in the UK and thought double-digit broadband was pretty good, actually.
Now I live in a slightly remote corner of Europe and I had 6Gbps fiber installed yesterday, for €15/month. (Nominally 10Gbps, measures as 6, which is... pretty good, actually.)
A lot of British houses have coaxial cable TV in all bedrooms.
Ignoring the horrible taste of our forebears that were putting TVs where they don't belong, that does enable carrying gigabit ethernet using MoCA technology.
Excellent article! I think another take away is that we should all take a class on electrical wiring safety. Wiring is fun and very interesting, but can be very dangerous. Classes and the literature that comes with it are invaluable. However, Youtube and the literature will only take you so far, safety wise. (I'm not affiliated with any tech school, I learned by being in the trades under the guidance of trained electricians, with test stands and real life testing.)
It sounds like his phone lines were already cat5, which is not surprisingly capable of 1Gbps.
However, I wonder why it seems G.hn is only available in the form of adapters, and not as e.g. a PCIe NIC.
Then they would need to deal with drivers.
Yeah the era of non-Ethernet/Wi-Fi NICs died off decades ago with the last ADSL cards. Nowadays I'm not sure if OSes even support creating drivers for anything non-Ethernet (especially where to provide the config UI for your non-standard protocol).
What I've seen done recently to work around this is to combine your custom chip with a standard Ethernet NIC on the same board. The computer just sees an (off-the-shelf) NIC that's always connected, and all configuration happens via IP by browsing to a specific private IP (this kinda insists on NAT though).
Linux would support it for sure. It even still has support for several old NICs (it was only the other day I saw a news item about some old protocol from the early 90s finally being removed). But I can imagine no one wants to develop a new such driver.
And if you want to sell to consumers you need Windows and Mac support, and then it easier to just adapt to existing interfaces.
You could have a regular single-chip Ethernet NIC on the same card.
I've been eying the phone sockets too wondering what I can do with them. Think i'll end up running fiber though because internet is 1.6 so gigabit would be a bottleneck.
As a side note - it's quite difficult to find white fiber cables. They're all bright colour so that nobody cuts them accidentally but I don't want a pink line running along the walls haha
Here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elfcam®-Fibre-Optic-Multimode-Duple...
It is flat and thin enough you can stick it on top of skirting boards/etc with tiny dabs of hot glue.
Neat. Thanks
I had found that brand when I was looking a month ago and it was out of stock everywhere
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-lc-apc-invisible-cabl...
I can second this 0.9mm transparent stuff, I've run it successfully and it's very subtle.
Depending on the media converter pair you're using, you probably want UPC instead of APC. I also found that the cheapest generic bidi media converters tend to be SC, so I want with a 30m pre-terminated SC/UPC cable. Total cost (cable plus media converters) was about £30.
Alternatively, you can order a custom 30+m white 0.9mm cable from FS: https://www.fs.com/uk/products/12285.html Lead time is fairly long.
No need for fiber for 1.6 gigabit, Cat5e can do 10GbE over short distances, 2.5GbE over longer distances.
The other advantage of fibre is subtlety if you can't (or don't want to) run it through walls. 0.9mm diameter and light enough to attach it with occasional dots of glue instead of needing cable clips.
Wait, but you get 63MB/s down from steam?
My internet is pretty good, I can easily saturate my (rather dated) WiFi at about 30MB/s. But Steam downloads are extremely slow for me (can't remember the numbers but much less).
I always assumed Valve themselves were just stingy with bandwidth. Something else funny going on?
Peering between your ISP and Valve is likely saturated.
Considering Valve has an incentive to make downloads fast (= more revenue), it's likely your ISP is being stingy in this case.
I would have assumed valve use some third party CDN but yeah this would make sense I guess
And ISPs in most of the western world have no incentives to fix it, instead trying to scam Valve and others to get paid twice.
The business model of consumer ISPs is "take the money and don't deliver" so this tracks.
It might have detected the wrong country/city for you. Check Settings -> Downloads -> Region
Otherwise it's just your WiFi being patchy. I think Steam is doing "friendly" bulk download, it slows down before the connection is saturated, to avoid disconnecting your wife/mum/siblings watching Youtube or on a videoconference.
For me it varies a lot. Sometimes I get 800 Mbit and sometimes like 80 Mbit. Mostly closer to 800, tho.
> Wait, but you get 63MB/s down from steam?
I usually (but not always) saturate my downlink with Steam downloads... even back when I was a Comcast customer and paying for ~180MB/s (~1500mbit/s) asymmetric service.
I believe that I have noticed that smaller games (~a few hundred MB or maybe a GB or two) will download quite a bit slower than large games, but I'm not very confident in that observation.
> I believe that I have noticed that smaller games (~a few hundred MB or maybe a GB or two) will download quite a bit slower than large games, but I'm not very confident in that observation.
You can see that on the HellDivers screenshot, it takes 20 seconds to reach 500 Mbps, because TCP takes a while to adjust the bandwidth and is very conservative. TCP and home computers are not designed to make use of gigabit connections.
> ...it takes 20 seconds to reach 500 Mbps, because TCP takes a while to adjust the bandwidth and is very conservative. TCP and home computers are not designed to make use of gigabit connections.
I very much doubt that that is an artifact of TCP. I can go from nothing to 10gbit/s symmetric in 100->200ms when running Iperf3 over TCP against another one of my LAN hosts.
And, back when I had a 1.5gbit/s Internet downlink, it took far, far less than 20 seconds to reach > 500mbps for big Steam downloads and other such well-provisioned things.
Comcast has Steam server(s) colocated within their network in my immediate area. I’ve observed that less popular downloads tend to connect to external servers in the next state over.
I've noticed this company also has coax modems. I wonder if they will work better than MOCA adapters. I've tried MOCA at my house and the quality of the signal is not good, connection keeps dropping every 10-15 minutes for no apparent reason...
You may have had filters on your lines or just really poor quality connections/cables. I’ve been using MoCA in my home to bring internet up from my basement to the second floor for a few years and it’s been flawless. Consistent 1gbps, no drops, 1-2ms extra latency compared to Ethernet wired devices.
what do you mean by filters? how can I check this?
>>Phones are wireless, which is too slow to test anything.
As a random aside - I've been surprised by this recently. I got a new shiny Wifi 7 router(TPlink BE550) and my Samsung S24 Ultra can sustain 2.2Gbps over wifi, both to and from the router. At this point I'm not sure if that is the actual limit or if it's limited by the 2.5GbE port on the router since that had my NAS connected to it and I was testing transfer to and from it. And it wasn't like an inch from the router either - it did it while in my hand, on the other side of the room with me sitting on our sofa.
When it comes to wireless, top speeds are misleading and the wrong way to look at it.
You can have the shittiest link possible with lots of dropouts and still get a decent speed test result because in between the dropouts you get max speed and TCP/etc is designed exactly to smooth over such packet loss, and browser-based tests aren't able to get low-level UDP access to defuse that.
Yet such a connection will be unusable for anything real-time, think gaming or videoconferencing. That's why so many people's connection still stutters on Zoom/etc calls - the "good" connection and super fancy router their ISP sold them isn't actually that good despite speed test results being satisfactory.
Honestly, most UK houses start out with a single ISP-provided wifi router, situated somewhere close to where the data cable enters the building.
For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.
The issues arise when you've got a larger building, thick walls, lots of things competing for the same frequency band, a less great router, or you need the very lowest latency.
> For a lot of homes, that's enough to provide good-enough internet throughout the building.
It often isn't - it's just magic like TCP/etc that is doing its job and making it feel that way for bulk non-interactive transfers. But get those people on a Zoom call or anything real-time and it'll be painful (double pain if they've subsequently got terrible bluetooth headsets and/or accidentally use their laptop's internal mic).
Doesn't help stupid ISPs split their 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands on separate SSIDs so now devices can't switch automatically and you've either got people constantly hogging the 2.4 band or barely trying to hang onto the 5GHz one in conditions where falling back to 2.4 would be appropriate.
This is essentially how some fixed wireless providers (like Starry) deliver the last mile (twisted pair).
I have an 8-wire phone line (twisted pair) between floors. I connected it with an RJ45 socket and it connects at Gigabit speed.
If you only have four wires available, it will usually still work at 100 MBit.
> After some days, the DHL website said they tried to deliver but nobody home, this is bullshit
This is typical DHL. I started to believe, they put "tried to deliver, but nobody home" for any & all "UnhandledException" cases.
And here I am struggling to get gigabit Ethernet over brand new cat6 cabling with devices bought in 2025…
Over what distance? Sounds like something is broken… Sure all the pairs are punched down in the right order, cables aren’t crushed, etc.?
I’ve had 2.5GbE running over old in-wall Cat5 in old buildings on short to medium (15-30m) runs with no issues…
Roughly 15 metres. Almost certainly a cabling issue, although frustratingly the electrician who installed it says that they think it's fine. I've got a ubiquiti U7 AP connected to a USW lite 8 via POE, and it negotiates GbE, but then falls back to E.
Wild to me that this developer has no access to a device with gigabit ethernet.
Time really does fly.
The way I read it, they probably have Ethernet on their gaming desktop PC, just not on a second device to run a local speed test.
He claims:
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet.
Which might well be true where he is (ie he's limited to the equivalent of shared HFC or xDSL), but certainly isn't true everywhere.
I've had gigabit fibre (full duplex) in London since 2016, and the building had it before I arrived. It also has incredibly low latency to the major data centres of London, and not a lot more to most of western Europe.
Symnetric gigabit connections can be hard to come by in London.
If you're served by a niche fibre provider (e.g. Hyperoptic, Community Fibre) then you're golden.
There's Virgin (think Comcast) with paltry upload speeds due to the cable tech. Understandable though not ideal.
Then there's the OpenReach full fibre network with paltry upload speeds due to... ??? there appears to no good reason, other than not wanting to cannibalise their leased line business. Does anyone actually know why they don't offer a symmetric product like the niche fibre ISPs?
Virgin actually have upgraded a huge swath of their footprint from cable to XGS-PON (probably coming up to 10million homes now, with the full program due to finish in a couple of years).
However, due to their comically bad billing systems (i believe they licensed a billing system off the cable modem headend provider) they do not allow their existing users to switch from DOCSIS cable to FTTH. This has been a problem for a couple of years now. They've spent billions on civil engineering work to blow fibre everywhere but existing customers can't order it because their billing system is tightly coupled to their cable modem system. They offer up to 2gig symmetrical over XGSPON FTTH.
Re openreach I think it's a bit of protecting leased line revenue, a bit of faster upload speeds actually being quite niche - the market is driven by headline download speeds - but most importantly they rolled out GPON not XGSPON.
GPON "only" has 2.5gbit/1.2gbit available to the entire network slice it's on, which can be up to 32 homes (theoretically many more but openreach have that as the maximum I've seen).
This means one gigabit uplink can nearly saturate the entire link for the network slice of 32 homes.
They do have plans to upgrade to XGSPON (though I suspect they may skip that and move to 50GPON instead). XGSPON has 10git/10gbit and 50GPON 50/50 available to the same 32 homes.
They are just about to start a pilot of XGSPON in Guildford which has up to 8gig symmetrical available.
It's not a huge amount of work to upgrade PON versions, it just requires new line cards, and new ONT boxes for each house and can run side by side with existing GPON.
> Does anyone actually know why they don't offer a symmetric product like the niche fibre ISPs?
Short version: The UK regulator OFCOM defines ultrafast internet as 30 Mbps download speed. That's why UK internet providers (openreach and related) have deals starting as low as 30 Mbps and they can't be arsed to provide a faster speed (unless you pay £££).
Hyperoptic is niche? I thought they were available all over London.
Even if they are available on your street, each building and individual flat has to be connected. For blocks of flats that's not always straightforward.
Not where I am. It's street by street. A lot of areas have no fibre at all, not even OpenReach.
It's cable from Virgin or DSL
It's possibly because of a ruling from the Advertising Standards Authority back in the ADSL days: https://www.asa.org.uk/resource/broadband-speed-claims-guida...
Full quote. The problem is the price.
> One peculiar thing from the UK: Internet providers don’t truly offer gigabit internet. They have a range of deals like 30 Mbps – 75 Mbps – 150 Mbps – 300 Mbps – 500 Mbps – 900 Mbps, each one costing a few more pounds per month than the last.
Gigabit is so much more expensive (obviously it's gone down a lot). In London 2016, I had ADSL broadband at 16 Mbps for £12/month. That building didn't have fiber at the time. When fiber finally happened... it started as 30 Mbps fiber for so much more money.
I have 150Mb/s FTTP for £37/month - upgrading to gigabit would be £75/month, for example!
This is actually something where you are often better off outside of cities. The areas serviced by newer providers who are using the government grants to offer fibre to places without it and are actually running new fibre tend to offer much better prices and speeds.
E.g: One of them offers 900Mbps symmetric for £40/month (with a deal for £30/month for the first year). Meanwhile the legacy providers via OpenReach will only give you 700 down/100 up for more money, and require a two year contract.
The only real downside is most of them will CGNAT you, but most do offer IPv6 too, and mine offers a static IPv4 for £5/month more.
Fibre rollout in London was (is?) really, really patchy. If your building had it you were lucky. If you hadn't had it already you may well have found it impossible to get at retail.
It's actually very well covered now. The problem is apartment buildings. The buildings owner has to give approval to allow openreach/virgin/hyperopic to run new fibre thru the building, and it's extremely time consuming for network providers to negotiate these individually per building.
If you're not in an apartment building you'll almost certainly have FTTH coverage from someone in London.
The govt is consulting on new laws which would give apartment building residents the power to demand the freeholder of the apartment building allow fibre installs, which would make this far easier.
had the same thing, electrician just used whatever was on the truck. swapped the faceplates and got instant gigabit
Another option is invsilight (https://lightera.com/invisilight-home-fiber-kit/).
It's very thin fibre cable that can be glued across skirting boards etc and is very hard to see.
I mean on fairly short runs you can run Ethernet over water pipes if you want to. I'd try the cable on its own first without any fancy chipsets.
I've been surprisingly successful with that in the past.
Am I the only one who gets amazing performance from Mesh wifi (only one AP is connected to Ethernet) and have absolutely no need to run Ethernet around the house ....or use old telephone wires?
My current apartment also had a bunch of phone sockets spread around... In a couple of hours, I've removed the existing wires and passed Ethernet wires. Quick, easy, ubiquitous and cheap.
Ok, the writer could be renting a house and not wanting to do that. But sincerely, in Portugal, the landlords couldn't care less. Maybe in the UK, they really, really love their phone sockets and don't want to replace them, don't know.
UK landlords also don't tend to invest anything in their properties.
But in the UK case, that means the old phone cables are stapled to the skirting boards and painted over with gloss paint, and the sockets were wallpapered around in the 1990s. Pull the old cables and sockets off, the paint chips off and you've got holes square holes left in the wallpaper.
And although UK landlords don't give a shit about upkeep that costs them money, they rarely miss a chance to deduct money from the deposit.
> phones are wireless, which is too slow to test things
Eh, wifi7 go up to 1.7gbit or something like that. Should be plenty assuming the hardware supports it. Which is a pretty big assumption.
If you are in the US and need to get networks into various rooms, MoCA 2.5 is amazing! Since most US houses are wired for TV in all rooms, it works out well.
I thought it was reasonably common knowledge if you had a phone jack with 4 wires, you could route data over those 4 pins in an ethernet plug too.
Came in handy in an older house that used to have an intercom system, we just borrowed the deactivated intercom wires (they were 4 or 6 copper wires).
Damn I ripped all our telephone lines out and ran cat6 up through the house to my office and I could have just done this?! Well shit.
What I did in all my rentals (in Germany) was to outright run new cable. All you need is a bunch of drills - if you want to pull Ethernet, a 10mm drill will be sufficient, if you want pre-fab LC fiber you'll need a 15mm drill (better 17mm), and if you want to pull pipe (which I prefer) a 27mm drill for a DN20 pipe. And when you move out, take out the pipe, put some plaster over, smooth and paint, and no one can ever tell what has been there.
I'm so afraid that my landlord (a big company) will use ANY excuse to rob me of my deposit when I move out... lol, even though I'm a member of Mieterverein.
The same landlord whose workers outright forgot to install the water heater in the kitchen the day I got the flat, and __painted shut__ the bathroom window. LMAO.
Though I can only second this -- use transparent fiber and be creative in where you route it -- and nobody will be able to tell you did something 'naughty' in your rental.
This seems like a lot of effort and expense to avoid either figuring out the current ethernet cable layout, or pulling new cable. It's not that hard.
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets.
Really? I've never seen that many in a house. Most might have one extension in a bedroom upstairs. Which is usually the one room where you don't want a data connection. Crazy to think when I was little it was common to have a phone downstairs and another upstairs in the master bedroom. Who the hell wants to make a phone call from bed?!
I think it's easier just to run cables, tbh. If you can't put them in the walls/floors then hide them in plastic conduit. You can do a pretty good job with a bit of planning.
> A new house bought today could have 10 phone sockets and 0 Ethernet sockets.
That's nonsense. Not in a new house. Maybe one from 20 years ago.
Anyway nice find. It's always annoying when there's a product that you know should exist but simply doesn't.
I'm currently trying to find a reasonably priced Bluetooth Auracast receiver so I can play audio to multiple rooms from my phone (no way am I investing in Sonos after all their bullshit).
There should be loads of these but the only ones I can find seem to be battery powered wearable devices aimed at tour groups, or hundreds of pounds.
The 10 phone sockets are pretty unlikely, true, but 0 Ethernet? Probably more common than not. If anything, modern builds are doing less ethernet than ever because they assume everyone is just using WiFi.
Ah yeah I quoted too much. I meant the phone sockets thing. Zero ethernet seems to be the norm still unfortunately because most people do just use WiFi.
Why would they have ethernet sockets? Only one of the four computers I own has one, and I've never used it. I don't think this is unusual.