"We've removed the distractions..." So, no browser is included then? That won't be very useful.
And also "Commercial-grade media support". Those two things are at odds, aren't they?
And why is it a "terminal" and not a "computer"? Is it because "terminal" is a geeky word?
And no pictures, other than the very obvious render? How thick is it? What kind of connectivity/ports does it have? Is it completely flat, or wedge shaped? Can the keyboard be detached somehow? What's the deal with those weird keys? What does it look on the inside? What's the software that it's actually using? What WM is that? Can I install it on my laptop? Where is the source code? So many questions.
It looks a lot like vapourware to me. And at that price point, I'm not sure who is going to buy that.
I think a very common misconception makes this a terrible idea.
We, developers, are also "common computer users". Just like a sound engineer, a graphic designer, a movie editor, or any specialist, really, has fancy hard- and software, but remains also a "general user".
I have to do my taxes. Write a CV, or a speech. I have to make a presentation. I want to watch netflix. Listen to spotify. Must use trello, read my email, or use that abysmal internal time tracker. Play a game. Order new sneakers. Find a restaurant. And no, I don't do all that in emacs, terminal, bash scripts and lynx. Like every "general computer user" I use my computer for those things as well.
Despite what Hollywood makes it look like, developers, hackers, sw architects, sw engineers etc do use the stuff that everyone uses as well. Commonly and often.
It's not common amongst any of the developers I see in my bubble.
Could be my bubble. And it doesn't mean this practice of having one machine for all uses, is actually "good".
Though personally, i'd dislike the idea of having to maintain, update, etc multiple machines. And to sync data/logins/documents/tools between the two.
I like grepping through my "Administration/invoices". I prefer putting "Documents/contracts/" under git, eventhough all are pdfs and word. I need my todo-list to be a mix of work related and personal tasks.
Also, I listen spotify when I work. I check or answer work and personal mail when waiting for a meeting to start. I use my notes for work and private. Same for password manager, calendar.
In my case, the line is too blurred to be able to switch between machines. Theyll very much overlap, making having two a burden rather than a benefit.
It might not be a good idea if you have any concern that the company you work for may ever be involved in litigation. This was part of the training when I joined Microsoft, many years ago, as a result of the big antitrust trial: anything at all that you do on your work computer or the company network might someday be subject to discovery. I have since maintained a strict separation between work accounts, data, and activities, which exist only on company-owned hardware, and my own personal data, which only lives on my own personal hardware.
Some companies are strict about firewalling corporate data in, but I think it's also important for us to protect ourselves by keeping our personal data out.
This is extremely good advice. It’s frequently at odds with convenience, since things like iPhone screen mirroring, iPad as a 2nd display, etc. practically beg for you to sign into your work laptop with your personal Apple ID. All I can say is resist the urge to do such things.
I do keep a browser profile on the work machine signed into personal accounts, and do everything personal only in that browser, but even that is probably a mistake. Screen-sharing to home would be a much better compromise, unfortunately my gigabit internet comes with like 50Mbps upload so screen sharing sucks.
I live in a world with lots of custom x11 apps. Unfortunately, browsers couldn't historically consume enough data fast enough (though that's probably changed I. He last several years.)
Not everything in the world is a browser.
I'm guessing they're targeting people who currently use something like a Bloomberg terminal and used the word "terminal" because that community already used it.
I'm vaguely interested in looking at new window managers. I3 is nice but isn't perfect. I'm happy to look at new ways of doing things. It seems a bit retro to tie a specific WM or a specific Distro to a specific bit of hardware. Sort of like a MBP with macOS.
- Calligra with two 'l's is the name of a KDE office suite.
- Why does the keyboard have macOS keys? At least as a Linux user, I've felt like most Linux desktops reflect the Windows keyboard layout more.
- Can I have pictures of the internals of the machine, or is this a 3D rendering?
- The Workbench OS makes a lot of claims that I want more information about. Is this a rice on a common WM or something they made themselves? Why is it "suitable for sovereign and secure deployments"? Won't having homebrew and DNF lead to conflicts (this is more of a general question, since I genuinely don't know)?
Nonetheless, I have to say that it does look cool from a design perspective, and with the pace of DRAM prices, maybe the actual system price won't actually be that crazy in a few months.
> Why is it "suitable for sovereign and secure deployments"?
It doesn't have device "drivers", it has device travellers.
When you go to shut it down it pops up an annoying dialogue box saying that its "First Amendment Rights Are Being Violated" that won't go away, even though it's made in Shoreditch which is nowhere near the US and therefore the US constitution is about as relevant as Kenya's.
I think this will fly right past a number of people, but I appreciated it. As soon as I saw the word "sovereign" in the quote, my mind was already making the association with the nonsense people. My GPU's device traveller is a real pita, sometimes.
To be honest, every time I see something this paper-thin yet slick and polished, I just assume it's mostly AI slop. The barrier to launching vaporware has never been lower.
Content over presentation is a signal for quality more than ever.
So this probably should be the top comment, but I'll reply to add to my nitpicks. Calling it workbench OS does confuse a bit from the amiga workbench, although I doubt these people are aware of that.
I highly doubt anyone is “dailying” an Amiga today for any actual work (other than retro fun), so I suspect there won’t be even a single person who expects this to be compatible with Amiga.
Likewise anyone looking for like a FPGA new Amiga hardware knows anything that says it’s got a Ryzen is not the droid they’re looking for.
"Get out of your way" is marketing speak to cover for missing applications. I've rarely seen such a blatant piece of marketing. "A computer for experts". Any computer with access to a terminal prompt is a computer for experts.
ehhhh, i disagree partially. a less cynical take would be to call it “opinionated”.
any computer can be for “experts”, but that’s not the same as delivering something preconfigured and opinionated.
nobody has actually seen this thing in action yet, but in my head it’s hardware + some opinionated linux distro (i imagine something like omarchy) + support.
certainly not what everybody would want, but if there are people that enjoy configuring their systems then there’s people that don’t.
Why do I feel like this is kinda like the hipster carrying his typewriter on the bus?
It seems like stuff like this is more about presenting an “identity “ instead of actually doing anything real. My immediate assumption from seeing someone with this would be that they are more about appearing to do a thing than actually doing it… so perhaps a good ux designer.
To be fair, I switched when apple silicon cut my compile time by 75 percent even using x86 emulation, dollar for dollar, and I got 2x battery life out of the deal for free. I run Linux most of the time in a VM these days, but I also really enjoy the ability to run largish (70b) models at Q6 with reasonable performance, thanks to the unified memory. They got some stuff pretty right, have to give them that.
There are few more photos of this HW here [1] and [2]. Apparently a real HW already exists. Also, it seems there is a storage space inside the box [3] and that the keyboard is foldable..
I was hoping to see a flip up 12” x 4” screen. A bunch of devices have been showing up recently with this particular format of OLED. Here’s one that may or may not be vaporware, but which links to a couple of other devices with the same screen, so presumably something is shipping:
Alas, this is more of a BBC B / Amiga format nostalgia fest, from the homeland of the hipster dads, Central Shoreditch.
This device could certainly add real value though if the OS / hardware integration gets nailed. That is, after all, where the Raspberry Pi really shone brightly: defining a standardised and working platform.
This isn't made by developers, that's clear, and I don't think it's going to be very functional. However, I do love the aesthetic and I do love that someone is trying something new.
By new you mean they’re making a 1980s all-in-one keyboard/computer with the 10 key on the wrong side of the keyboard running a version of a familiar-to-most-of-us OS that isn’t at all new looking?
I’m sorry; none of this is new to me except the absurd price tag.
While I agree with your general sentiment, the 10 key being on the "wrong" side could be good, perhaps, in some cases?
Historically I've done some heavy spreadsheet work where the resting position of my hands which minimizes movement is right hand on the mouse, left hand on the 10 keys. On a normal keyboard that has the disadvantage of causing a "closed" posture which isn't entirely comfortable.
Outside of that kind of niche use case though, it definitely feels like a strange choice for developers.
Not much of a terminal without a monitor, is it? Or is its output entirely audio?
I'm curious what the physical size of the machine is. Is it GPD MicroPC-sized or are we talking about a normal laptop? 100g or 10kg?
When I worked in a call center I learned to use the Data General terminal's keypad to type in people's credit card numbers as fast as people could say them. I would not want to use this keypad because I wouldn't be able to use my right hand on it, and that's the hand that knows the keypad. Then again, I don't do that much numeric data entry these days.
The hardware is totally ridiculous for the price. You are paying a lot of money so that the CPU can be close to your fingers, instead of in a much better cooled box half a meter away.
The OS is totally mysterious. What exactly is it? Just Fedora with a custom rice of some wm?
By the way "Entertainment, Advertising, Shopping, Attack Surface, Distraction" is something you do not have in most distros anyway. So hardly a selling point.
Who is this for? Companies with too much money? Individuals with some aesthetic sensibilities for putting your hardware right below your keyboard?
While I do applaud the idea of "re-thinking the computer for deverlopers", this looks little more than "thinking", to me.
A back of a beermat business idea, pulled through an expensive marketing machine.
My rule of thumb: if something has a concrete price, but the something itself isn't made yet, it's either way too expensive or a ploy or both.
Maybe its a "find if there's need for it" phase. But if you cannot make that "it" concrete, I -and I suspect many more of the target audience- cannot answer this question.
So yes: kudos for bringing up the "developers need other hard and software than general audience" idea. But I would strongly advice to first make it concrete and deliver pieces and parts. Release the DE and OS so we can experience if this solves "problems" that devs have. Finetune that. Again. And again. Then pair it with hardware. Personally, I'd go for hardware thats already popular with devs.
For me, thatd be: Ship me a high end Lenovo, with Ubuntu¹ pre-installed and loaded with software like neovim, zsh, git, ripgrep, chrome, firefox, zed, slack (we all require it, don't we?) vscode. Maybe some icing like starship, a nice theme. It could be opinionated or extremely configurable (and remain stable at that over years).
Or, on second thought: I have all that. So what problem does this solve?
It’s an odd keyboard layout for a Linux computer. They should have gone with what I consider the true Unix layout - the Sun Microsystems Type 7 Unix keyboard: https://imgur.com/PftSNnk
The first thing I see is the badly designed keyboard.
The legends have insufficient contrast and quite a number of them are too small to read. The legends for ², ³, home, end, page up, page down, return, control, num lock and the four arrows are wrong, or in the case of escape, do not fit the theme. Minus and underscore are indistinguishable from each other. The small letter g has the wrong font weight. The level 3 and 4 legends are incongruent with /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/eu. Despite level 3 and 4 legends, there is no level 3 shift key. The return key is misshapen and the escape key has a grotesquely large size. The place of the insert key is usurped by the fn key.
I would behoove the designer to pay attention to ISO 9995 and verify the result with users before sending it off to manufacturing, the company could have avoided a lot of trouble.
What specific technical thing about this makes it appealing? The marketing speak sounds nice but is there anything you're seeing here that you wouldn't get in a MacBook or Thinkpad equivalently priced? There is not much detail.
I’m not endorsing the device. It might be mediocre, and the company might be too. What I like is the direction. Most of the criticism in this thread focuses on the marketing, but that’s actually the part I find interesting: it’s explicitly aimed at Linux-centric desktop users without pretending to be “just like Windows” or trying to hide the fact that it’s Linux.
Plenty of people are frustrated with the current Windows ecosystem (Microsoft account login really bothers me for a lot of reasons). The market usually responds with one of two things: a Windows laptop you can convert into a Linux machine, or a Linux machine that tries very hard not to act like one. This is at least purporting to be neither (maybe they are full of shit, who knows). It’s trying to sell a finished, opinionated product for power users on Linux. Even if this particular device ends up turning into the next juicero/Rabbit R100, I’m glad to see someone treating that segment as worth designing for.
So yeah computer vendors, go ahead and do this more I like the vibes here even if I have no intention on buying right now.
> "a Windows laptop you can convert into a Linux machine, or a Linux machine that tries very hard not to act like one"
You can buy computers with nothing installed on them if you want, and computer is computer (for the most part), so you can run whatever you want on it. I think the linux space is generally too fragmented into all the different distros to offer a "linux laptop", because people will wonder why it's not shipping with their favourite flavour of penguin
> You can buy computers with nothing installed on them if you want
There's nothing wrong with that approach, but this is exactly the opposite of what I am saying.
To clarify, when you buy a computer with nothing on it, you are actually buying a windows computer that had windows removed or opted-out of. It was not built with Linux in mind.
It's funny how price triggers people. Let them price their products however they will :-)
As a counterpoint, EP-133 (KO-II) is a very interestingly designed product that is ergonomic, quite useful, and gets a specific job done very, very well. The price also has fewer digits, so perhaps it doesn't trigger people as much as other products do.
> 9.2. Trademarks: “c100”, “Caligra” and all associated logos and trade dress are registered or unregistered trademarks of Caligra Ltd. You may not use any of Caligra Ltd’s trademarks without express written permission.
"Computer for Experts" may be trademarked, but it's unlikely
The Workbench feature to have an always-on-hand notepad overlay thing is really appealing. I always have a multi-tabbed text editor handy for quick notes and this seems like a good way to integrate that into the shell. I’d love to take this Workbench distribution for a spin based on that.
But to mirror the sentiment here on HN, the rest of it looks vaporware-y
I love the fact that somebody tries to do something with computers and computing!
Rather than being the usual bunch of grumpy armchair critics (raah raah, too expensive, raah raah, suboptimal GPU), we should be happy that there are still people who are willing to ignore the Statlers & Waldorfs of HN and try to compete with the current status quo.
Because it's not for the developers I know – they either want a Macbook or an infinitely configurable (hardware and software) workstation, whereas this has the configurability of a Macbook with the ease of use of the workstation, clearly not a combination people want.
I can only assume this is for mechanical keyboard collectors. Developer-adjacent tech enthusiasts who like the idea of Linux, without an actual professional need for it. People who like well built devices, but don't really care about swapping out hardware. People who have a lot of disposable income and want to buy cool things.
If that's the target market, that's fine. I guess the problem is that market only buys it if you claim its for a different market, developers/etc. As a result it's going to rile up developers every time as they always feel the need to push back with "this isn't what I want".
Probably people who see this and experience extreme confused nostalgia for the unholy merge of IBM and Commodore esthetic. It makes no practical sense, it's overpriced, it's a terrible use of space and I still crave it.
If they were going for the commodore aesthetic, 1) may be don't call it workbench OS to confuse people and 2) the numpad (if it was called that then) is on the wrong side. It was on the right on the C64 and the amiga alike like it was.
Would this benefit left handed users? I know people call for reversing mouse buttons and mouse hands but I've never seen an ask for flipping the position of the numpad.
As a leftie, I've never really used a keyboard and mouse "left handed". It's too much hassle to have to keep swapping things around when you live in a household of righties, so I just learned to use stuff the "normal" way around. In situations where there is an obvious physical disadvantage to using right handed items (eg scissors), I'll do my best to find a leftie equivalent, but it sounds like more hassle than it's worth to do the same with a mouse and keyboard. I can't draw for the life of me with a mouse, but that doesn't come up much. I don't really see the point of a left side numpad, though TBH I rarely use one anyways
As a lefty who is proficient with the numpad, I’d adapt quickly to it being on the left, but I wouldn’t ultimately be any faster with it, regardless of whether key order was reversed or kept the same.
I also don’t think I’ve ever seen a lefty who prefers (or at least regularly uses) a left mouse. I adjusted to right for the same reason as you, but I also think being able to type one handed with my left while mousing with my right is superior to its opposite for me.
I would generally type with both hands at the same time, but it is useful to be able to mouse with my right hand and do the common shortcuts (ctrl+z,x,c,v) with my left. I don't know how that would work if I was mousing with my left hand. I'd have to control with my index finger and do the shortcut with my little finger? sounds awful lol
They don't have to replicate everything exactly as it was in the original machines to give the right vibe. It's similar, not a retrocomputing reproduction. Also Amiga was made by Commodore - it's in the same family. I don't expect anyone to be confused by the workbench naming though - it's a weird name, but why would anyone stick the actual workbench os on a multi-GB machine?
I don't know either. I'm a developer, a very old grumpy beardy one at that. My "expert development workstation" since I began hacking on Linux almost 30 years ago has been "whatever's the fastest thing in the e-waste skip, crammed full of as much memory as I can pilfer from the rest of the scrap", and then with a brand new disk at the best price-per-gigabyte ratio I can get this afternoon from the totally-not-drug-money-laundering discount PC parts shop in town.
I don't think I've ever spent "real money" on a PC for my own use, and I doubt I ever will.
I suspect my experience mirrors that of about 50% of the folk on HN.
the choices made on the keyboard layout seem weird to me, though I do like the left hand numpad. But the big esc? the Fn key up top right seems like it makes key chords with it kind of hard. No ins key? no prt scr? is that 3 ctrl keys? or is that a caps lock? arrow keys etc seem a bit far away from main keyboard...
Including the keyboard seems a strange choice, especially when it's an oddity such as this one. Surely it'd be cheaper to add an extra USB port and have the buyer supply their own? I mouse left-handed, so a left hand numpad makes it an instant no from me - but even if you don't care what I think (which you shouldn't), there's so many other oddities in the layout as well! Where's PrtSc? Why is the Esc key so gigantic? Why is F7 not in its normal place? And, wait a moment - what is £ doing on 4? Why is € on 5?
This company is apparently based in London, but I wonder how many UK residents were involved in the design of the keyboard at least.
(I don't want to sound too mean though. It's no sin to attempt to experiment with a potential new market segment.)
Given target market, I’m very surprised at lack of detailed technical specifications.
Secondly, I find it odd to see the numpad on the left side of the keyboard, rather than on the right. Maybe the ergonomics are fine, but it caught my eye as unexpected.
Ooooh, someone is asking for it from Amiga fans. Marketing an AIO keyboard PC with a deep back and calling the OS "Workbench"?
Courteous of them to put the numpad on the left where it BELONGS (apologies to late-80s Northgate Systems). And it's funny because I was just watching a vid about the Asus Eee Keyboard PC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee#Eee_Keyboard) that this looks like a modern version of.
Much better specs than that old thing though, but given that it has a "vibe-designed" look about it, I think I'll pass on preordering.
I don't quite get who the product targets. The only advantage I can think of is its retro design and its unique OS. But honestly, they are not attractive enough for me to pay 2k USD. I could build a more powerful server with the same money.
I've been following this for a while, great looking hardware, but the target market knows how to buy a computer, they don't need custom boxes.
For me this is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I like the look, but it wouldn't even really suit my desk, I like to have my keyboard push quite far forward, and the back of this C100 would prevent that.
Really nice, might even buy one, but there is no way this succeeds long term.
I thought of buying an old CRT based terminal PC from the 80s or 90s and running SSH into a modern linux PC I have to get that old school feeling. I would rather pay for that then this.
Here's someone trying to build a serious PC focused on Linux. But the comments are very negative. And people wonder why the year of the Linux desktop still haven't arrived.
If you want PCs targeting Linux with good support... don't complain when someone tries doing exactly that.
From this site, we have no indication that any actual person is putting any kind of good-faith effort towards trying any actual thing.
All we know is that a bunch of marketers are trying to find out: Given a certain amount of marketing effort, how many people can we sign up to a mailing list, and how many people can we get to pay a $99 reservation fee, if the product proposition is: You'll get a slick-looking "Developer-Terminal" (specifics to be determined) for $1.999. -- Based on that, they will decide whether they will lift a finger to figure out what the product should actually be, let alone put any resources towards developing it.
That's where the negativity comes from. They are eroding people's good will. Good will that is sorely needed when actual companies make actual products and need actual consumers to pay attention to actual product launches.
I think a lot of the negativity comes from the odd choice of keyboard layout.
You can think of it as a weirdness budget: this is an odd-purposed device, running a specialty distribution of Linux by design. It is not portable despite having portable-like specs. And on top of this, it has an unusual keyboard layout.
It costs a lot of money and requires pre-orders, so you can't even impulse buy it. You can't actually see if you'd like the keyboard switch or layout in stores, either.
I could be wrong but I think a lot of the negativity comes from people who want a modern laptop, with decent port selection, a good screen and a good keyboard, fully supported by Linux because everything is open. Quality hardware with support when you want it and open documentation and open drivers if you want to do something yourself. Like a MacBook Pro but with USB-A ports and built with 100% Linux compatibility from the ground up.
You can get a normal PC with Linux preinstalled from Lenovo, Dell, Framework, System76, etc. This isn't bringing much new other than a retro case, a few widgets, and pretentious marketing. I understand that they're probably "lean' so the first version isn't going to be impressive, but that means they need to sell it below cost not at a premium.
It’s just not a good deal and it’s a bit weird. A Framework laptop or desktop, a DIY build, or any number of other brands are better and sometimes cheaper.
you should complain a lot when the offering is not great, odd design decisions, bad price point, etc.... All of that is information to make better offerings. Instead of this thing, I think there are far better offerings from things like https://system76.com/laptops
Too expensive. I want something like this, minimalist hardware and a opinionated linux distro with minimal fluff. No screen persee, bit of a cyberdeck vibe maybe.
This just seems overkill for running a terminal though
Hard pass. Another Linux laptop with another sus distro won't teach anyone how to focus. Save a hand-me-down laptop from the landfill, install a known good distro, and do the hard work of culling distractions.
Its cringe to see something for enthusiasts cost 2k$ and have a keyboard layout from 100 years ago. I expect nothing less than ortholinear with thumb clusters
"We've removed the distractions..." So, no browser is included then? That won't be very useful.
And also "Commercial-grade media support". Those two things are at odds, aren't they?
And why is it a "terminal" and not a "computer"? Is it because "terminal" is a geeky word?
And no pictures, other than the very obvious render? How thick is it? What kind of connectivity/ports does it have? Is it completely flat, or wedge shaped? Can the keyboard be detached somehow? What's the deal with those weird keys? What does it look on the inside? What's the software that it's actually using? What WM is that? Can I install it on my laptop? Where is the source code? So many questions.
It looks a lot like vapourware to me. And at that price point, I'm not sure who is going to buy that.
I think a very common misconception makes this a terrible idea.
We, developers, are also "common computer users". Just like a sound engineer, a graphic designer, a movie editor, or any specialist, really, has fancy hard- and software, but remains also a "general user".
I have to do my taxes. Write a CV, or a speech. I have to make a presentation. I want to watch netflix. Listen to spotify. Must use trello, read my email, or use that abysmal internal time tracker. Play a game. Order new sneakers. Find a restaurant. And no, I don't do all that in emacs, terminal, bash scripts and lynx. Like every "general computer user" I use my computer for those things as well.
Despite what Hollywood makes it look like, developers, hackers, sw architects, sw engineers etc do use the stuff that everyone uses as well. Commonly and often.
But sometimes it's helpful to have two computers, one for "deep work" and one for all of that stuff.
Maybe.
It's not common amongst any of the developers I see in my bubble. Could be my bubble. And it doesn't mean this practice of having one machine for all uses, is actually "good".
Though personally, i'd dislike the idea of having to maintain, update, etc multiple machines. And to sync data/logins/documents/tools between the two.
I like grepping through my "Administration/invoices". I prefer putting "Documents/contracts/" under git, eventhough all are pdfs and word. I need my todo-list to be a mix of work related and personal tasks.
Also, I listen spotify when I work. I check or answer work and personal mail when waiting for a meeting to start. I use my notes for work and private. Same for password manager, calendar.
In my case, the line is too blurred to be able to switch between machines. Theyll very much overlap, making having two a burden rather than a benefit.
But that's me.
It might not be a good idea if you have any concern that the company you work for may ever be involved in litigation. This was part of the training when I joined Microsoft, many years ago, as a result of the big antitrust trial: anything at all that you do on your work computer or the company network might someday be subject to discovery. I have since maintained a strict separation between work accounts, data, and activities, which exist only on company-owned hardware, and my own personal data, which only lives on my own personal hardware.
Some companies are strict about firewalling corporate data in, but I think it's also important for us to protect ourselves by keeping our personal data out.
This is extremely good advice. It’s frequently at odds with convenience, since things like iPhone screen mirroring, iPad as a 2nd display, etc. practically beg for you to sign into your work laptop with your personal Apple ID. All I can say is resist the urge to do such things.
I do keep a browser profile on the work machine signed into personal accounts, and do everything personal only in that browser, but even that is probably a mistake. Screen-sharing to home would be a much better compromise, unfortunately my gigabit internet comes with like 50Mbps upload so screen sharing sucks.
I live in a world with lots of custom x11 apps. Unfortunately, browsers couldn't historically consume enough data fast enough (though that's probably changed I. He last several years.)
Not everything in the world is a browser.
I'm guessing they're targeting people who currently use something like a Bloomberg terminal and used the word "terminal" because that community already used it.
I'm vaguely interested in looking at new window managers. I3 is nice but isn't perfect. I'm happy to look at new ways of doing things. It seems a bit retro to tie a specific WM or a specific Distro to a specific bit of hardware. Sort of like a MBP with macOS.
>At that price point
Idk, 96GB of Ram and 1TB of storage on a Mac Studio is $3999. At least this one comes with a keyboard.
A few things about this stand out:
- Calligra with two 'l's is the name of a KDE office suite.
- Why does the keyboard have macOS keys? At least as a Linux user, I've felt like most Linux desktops reflect the Windows keyboard layout more.
- Can I have pictures of the internals of the machine, or is this a 3D rendering?
- The Workbench OS makes a lot of claims that I want more information about. Is this a rice on a common WM or something they made themselves? Why is it "suitable for sovereign and secure deployments"? Won't having homebrew and DNF lead to conflicts (this is more of a general question, since I genuinely don't know)?
Nonetheless, I have to say that it does look cool from a design perspective, and with the pace of DRAM prices, maybe the actual system price won't actually be that crazy in a few months.
> Why is it "suitable for sovereign and secure deployments"?
It doesn't have device "drivers", it has device travellers.
When you go to shut it down it pops up an annoying dialogue box saying that its "First Amendment Rights Are Being Violated" that won't go away, even though it's made in Shoreditch which is nowhere near the US and therefore the US constitution is about as relevant as Kenya's.
I think this will fly right past a number of people, but I appreciated it. As soon as I saw the word "sovereign" in the quote, my mind was already making the association with the nonsense people. My GPU's device traveller is a real pita, sometimes.
To be honest, every time I see something this paper-thin yet slick and polished, I just assume it's mostly AI slop. The barrier to launching vaporware has never been lower.
Content over presentation is a signal for quality more than ever.
IIRC there was a live stream where the creator went over the prototype.
So this probably should be the top comment, but I'll reply to add to my nitpicks. Calling it workbench OS does confuse a bit from the amiga workbench, although I doubt these people are aware of that.
“Confuse a bit”
I highly doubt anyone is “dailying” an Amiga today for any actual work (other than retro fun), so I suspect there won’t be even a single person who expects this to be compatible with Amiga.
Likewise anyone looking for like a FPGA new Amiga hardware knows anything that says it’s got a Ryzen is not the droid they’re looking for.
"Get out of your way" is marketing speak to cover for missing applications. I've rarely seen such a blatant piece of marketing. "A computer for experts". Any computer with access to a terminal prompt is a computer for experts.
It's a Fedora spin.
ehhhh, i disagree partially. a less cynical take would be to call it “opinionated”.
any computer can be for “experts”, but that’s not the same as delivering something preconfigured and opinionated.
nobody has actually seen this thing in action yet, but in my head it’s hardware + some opinionated linux distro (i imagine something like omarchy) + support.
certainly not what everybody would want, but if there are people that enjoy configuring their systems then there’s people that don’t.
Why do I feel like this is kinda like the hipster carrying his typewriter on the bus?
It seems like stuff like this is more about presenting an “identity “ instead of actually doing anything real. My immediate assumption from seeing someone with this would be that they are more about appearing to do a thing than actually doing it… so perhaps a good ux designer.
Right. Apple spent DECADES working on developers to make MBPs the exemplar hipster dev accessory
To be fair, I switched when apple silicon cut my compile time by 75 percent even using x86 emulation, dollar for dollar, and I got 2x battery life out of the deal for free. I run Linux most of the time in a VM these days, but I also really enjoy the ability to run largish (70b) models at Q6 with reasonable performance, thanks to the unified memory. They got some stuff pretty right, have to give them that.
There are few more photos of this HW here [1] and [2]. Apparently a real HW already exists. Also, it seems there is a storage space inside the box [3] and that the keyboard is foldable..
[1]: https://www.pentagram.com/news/caligra-computers-for-experts
[2]: https://www.instagram.com/p/DPEvytujE4k/
[3]: https://www.instagram.com/p/DPEvytujE4k/?img_index=8
Seeing the height and angle, I would question how comfortable that keyboard is.
The whole project looks like a special edition collectors item, not something anyone would use.
Wait - Pentagram designed a computer?
Definitely not a company with deep experience of developer culture.
I expect this will look slick and have a few nice features, but there's going to be a lot of "How do I...?" "No."
A laptop without a screen for the price of a regular laptop?
I get that economies of scale don't apply to something so niche, but that's just a bad deal. I'd rather get Framework Desktop.
a framework desktop and omarchy is conceptually 98% of what the c100 purports to be.
No need for a boatload of shell scripts that's omarchy. Just install any distro and get going.
Agreed. The weird shilling of this nonsense is exhausting.
different strokes dude
Fair. Just wanted to provide my stroke and warn people about a low quality, overhyped project. Doesn't mean it shouldn't exist or people can't use it.
I've been very pleased with omarchy. Most linux distros were "just shell scripts" for 30+ years. Many still are.
yeah, I don't get the haye, just a few years ago people were fighting systemd for taking away their shell scripts.
pretty sure everyone on hackernews knows this
I was hoping to see a flip up 12” x 4” screen. A bunch of devices have been showing up recently with this particular format of OLED. Here’s one that may or may not be vaporware, but which links to a couple of other devices with the same screen, so presumably something is shipping:
https://liliputing.com/kernelcom-is-a-compact-mini-laptop-wi...
Alas, this is more of a BBC B / Amiga format nostalgia fest, from the homeland of the hipster dads, Central Shoreditch.
This device could certainly add real value though if the OS / hardware integration gets nailed. That is, after all, where the Raspberry Pi really shone brightly: defining a standardised and working platform.
> the homeland of the hipster dads, Central Shoreditch
Old enough to remember when the hipsters moved in, I feel vindicated. Vindicated!
(I like the beeb/amiga comparison, and I like the textured case, but I don't like the left-hand numpad).
This isn't made by developers, that's clear, and I don't think it's going to be very functional. However, I do love the aesthetic and I do love that someone is trying something new.
By new you mean they’re making a 1980s all-in-one keyboard/computer with the 10 key on the wrong side of the keyboard running a version of a familiar-to-most-of-us OS that isn’t at all new looking?
I’m sorry; none of this is new to me except the absurd price tag.
While I agree with your general sentiment, the 10 key being on the "wrong" side could be good, perhaps, in some cases?
Historically I've done some heavy spreadsheet work where the resting position of my hands which minimizes movement is right hand on the mouse, left hand on the 10 keys. On a normal keyboard that has the disadvantage of causing a "closed" posture which isn't entirely comfortable.
Outside of that kind of niche use case though, it definitely feels like a strange choice for developers.
Not much of a terminal without a monitor, is it? Or is its output entirely audio?
I'm curious what the physical size of the machine is. Is it GPD MicroPC-sized or are we talking about a normal laptop? 100g or 10kg?
When I worked in a call center I learned to use the Data General terminal's keypad to type in people's credit card numbers as fast as people could say them. I would not want to use this keypad because I wouldn't be able to use my right hand on it, and that's the hand that knows the keypad. Then again, I don't do that much numeric data entry these days.
What's the ⌘ "interesting feature" key for?
⌘ is Mac's Command key. No idea what it's doing there.
Right, Susan Kare found it in her international symbol dictionary: https://www.folklore.org/Swedish_Campground.html?sort=date?s...
But what I mean is, what X-Windows keysym and modifier does it map to?
That's a weird keyboard, some computer specs and a weird linux distro... that's going to cost you $2k.
$100 to have the rights to reserve one? That's really nice of them.
Well... Good luck guys!
> $100 to have the rights to reserve one? That's really nice of them.
I paid £100 for a couple of old Thinkpad T430s, one of which I needed to spend a further £30 on to replace the battery.
That would leave me with a lot of change from the two grand I kind of don't have to spend on a toy computer that they won't even publish specs for.
- $2,000 price
- GPU is equivalent to a NVIDIA RTX 1650
- "Low profile" mechanical keyboard rather than a regular mechanical keyboard.
- Low modularity similar to a laptop.
- Holes right on the top where your spilled coffee goes
Nothing screams "designed to accelerate your work" than tightly coupling the keyboard to all the rest of the hardware.
The hardware is totally ridiculous for the price. You are paying a lot of money so that the CPU can be close to your fingers, instead of in a much better cooled box half a meter away.
The OS is totally mysterious. What exactly is it? Just Fedora with a custom rice of some wm?
By the way "Entertainment, Advertising, Shopping, Attack Surface, Distraction" is something you do not have in most distros anyway. So hardly a selling point.
Who is this for? Companies with too much money? Individuals with some aesthetic sensibilities for putting your hardware right below your keyboard?
While I do applaud the idea of "re-thinking the computer for deverlopers", this looks little more than "thinking", to me.
A back of a beermat business idea, pulled through an expensive marketing machine.
My rule of thumb: if something has a concrete price, but the something itself isn't made yet, it's either way too expensive or a ploy or both.
Maybe its a "find if there's need for it" phase. But if you cannot make that "it" concrete, I -and I suspect many more of the target audience- cannot answer this question.
So yes: kudos for bringing up the "developers need other hard and software than general audience" idea. But I would strongly advice to first make it concrete and deliver pieces and parts. Release the DE and OS so we can experience if this solves "problems" that devs have. Finetune that. Again. And again. Then pair it with hardware. Personally, I'd go for hardware thats already popular with devs.
For me, thatd be: Ship me a high end Lenovo, with Ubuntu¹ pre-installed and loaded with software like neovim, zsh, git, ripgrep, chrome, firefox, zed, slack (we all require it, don't we?) vscode. Maybe some icing like starship, a nice theme. It could be opinionated or extremely configurable (and remain stable at that over years).
Or, on second thought: I have all that. So what problem does this solve?
It’s an odd keyboard layout for a Linux computer. They should have gone with what I consider the true Unix layout - the Sun Microsystems Type 7 Unix keyboard: https://imgur.com/PftSNnk
The first thing I see is the badly designed keyboard.
The legends have insufficient contrast and quite a number of them are too small to read. The legends for ², ³, home, end, page up, page down, return, control, num lock and the four arrows are wrong, or in the case of escape, do not fit the theme. Minus and underscore are indistinguishable from each other. The small letter g has the wrong font weight. The level 3 and 4 legends are incongruent with /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/eu. Despite level 3 and 4 legends, there is no level 3 shift key. The return key is misshapen and the escape key has a grotesquely large size. The place of the insert key is usurped by the fn key.
I would behoove the designer to pay attention to ISO 9995 and verify the result with users before sending it off to manufacturing, the company could have avoided a lot of trouble.
I’ll be really happy if this becomes a market segment. A commercial desktop specifically for technical users on Linux is great to see.
What specific technical thing about this makes it appealing? The marketing speak sounds nice but is there anything you're seeing here that you wouldn't get in a MacBook or Thinkpad equivalently priced? There is not much detail.
I’m not endorsing the device. It might be mediocre, and the company might be too. What I like is the direction. Most of the criticism in this thread focuses on the marketing, but that’s actually the part I find interesting: it’s explicitly aimed at Linux-centric desktop users without pretending to be “just like Windows” or trying to hide the fact that it’s Linux.
Plenty of people are frustrated with the current Windows ecosystem (Microsoft account login really bothers me for a lot of reasons). The market usually responds with one of two things: a Windows laptop you can convert into a Linux machine, or a Linux machine that tries very hard not to act like one. This is at least purporting to be neither (maybe they are full of shit, who knows). It’s trying to sell a finished, opinionated product for power users on Linux. Even if this particular device ends up turning into the next juicero/Rabbit R100, I’m glad to see someone treating that segment as worth designing for.
So yeah computer vendors, go ahead and do this more I like the vibes here even if I have no intention on buying right now.
> "a Windows laptop you can convert into a Linux machine, or a Linux machine that tries very hard not to act like one"
You can buy computers with nothing installed on them if you want, and computer is computer (for the most part), so you can run whatever you want on it. I think the linux space is generally too fragmented into all the different distros to offer a "linux laptop", because people will wonder why it's not shipping with their favourite flavour of penguin
> You can buy computers with nothing installed on them if you want
There's nothing wrong with that approach, but this is exactly the opposite of what I am saying.
To clarify, when you buy a computer with nothing on it, you are actually buying a windows computer that had windows removed or opted-out of. It was not built with Linux in mind.
The philosophy does sound good but the implementation appears to be skin deep. It's just not enough.
System76 exists
If Teenage Engineering made a computer.
Expensive, not ergonomic, probably totally useless.
I wouldn't say TE's products are not ergonomic and totally useless
they are expensive over-engineered toys for millennials with a bad case of arrested development and enough disposable income to afford it
_op-1 owner_
op-1 is the most notorious one, but they do have some well designed not over-priced products
It's funny how price triggers people. Let them price their products however they will :-)
As a counterpoint, EP-133 (KO-II) is a very interestingly designed product that is ergonomic, quite useful, and gets a specific job done very, very well. The price also has fewer digits, so perhaps it doesn't trigger people as much as other products do.
Who said they're not allowed to sell it?
I used to own an OP-1 and I thought it was great.
> If Teenage Engineering made a computer.
Nailed it.
> Computers for Experts™
I do find it funny they were able to trademark that kind of statement.
Not really sure I am the target audience for this, actually I'm not really sure who is to be honest.
This is from their privacy policy page:
> 9.2. Trademarks: “c100”, “Caligra” and all associated logos and trade dress are registered or unregistered trademarks of Caligra Ltd. You may not use any of Caligra Ltd’s trademarks without express written permission.
"Computer for Experts" may be trademarked, but it's unlikely
Put in a couple of MIDI ports and I'll pretend it's a modern day Atari ST and run some Cubase...
The Workbench feature to have an always-on-hand notepad overlay thing is really appealing. I always have a multi-tabbed text editor handy for quick notes and this seems like a good way to integrate that into the shell. I’d love to take this Workbench distribution for a spin based on that.
But to mirror the sentiment here on HN, the rest of it looks vaporware-y
I love the fact that somebody tries to do something with computers and computing!
Rather than being the usual bunch of grumpy armchair critics (raah raah, too expensive, raah raah, suboptimal GPU), we should be happy that there are still people who are willing to ignore the Statlers & Waldorfs of HN and try to compete with the current status quo.
Do you feel grumpy about these grumpy critics, or critical of them?
Who is this for?
Because it's not for the developers I know – they either want a Macbook or an infinitely configurable (hardware and software) workstation, whereas this has the configurability of a Macbook with the ease of use of the workstation, clearly not a combination people want.
I can only assume this is for mechanical keyboard collectors. Developer-adjacent tech enthusiasts who like the idea of Linux, without an actual professional need for it. People who like well built devices, but don't really care about swapping out hardware. People who have a lot of disposable income and want to buy cool things.
If that's the target market, that's fine. I guess the problem is that market only buys it if you claim its for a different market, developers/etc. As a result it's going to rile up developers every time as they always feel the need to push back with "this isn't what I want".
> Who is this for?
Probably people who see this and experience extreme confused nostalgia for the unholy merge of IBM and Commodore esthetic. It makes no practical sense, it's overpriced, it's a terrible use of space and I still crave it.
If they were going for the commodore aesthetic, 1) may be don't call it workbench OS to confuse people and 2) the numpad (if it was called that then) is on the wrong side. It was on the right on the C64 and the amiga alike like it was.
Would this benefit left handed users? I know people call for reversing mouse buttons and mouse hands but I've never seen an ask for flipping the position of the numpad.
As a leftie, I've never really used a keyboard and mouse "left handed". It's too much hassle to have to keep swapping things around when you live in a household of righties, so I just learned to use stuff the "normal" way around. In situations where there is an obvious physical disadvantage to using right handed items (eg scissors), I'll do my best to find a leftie equivalent, but it sounds like more hassle than it's worth to do the same with a mouse and keyboard. I can't draw for the life of me with a mouse, but that doesn't come up much. I don't really see the point of a left side numpad, though TBH I rarely use one anyways
As a lefty who is proficient with the numpad, I’d adapt quickly to it being on the left, but I wouldn’t ultimately be any faster with it, regardless of whether key order was reversed or kept the same.
I also don’t think I’ve ever seen a lefty who prefers (or at least regularly uses) a left mouse. I adjusted to right for the same reason as you, but I also think being able to type one handed with my left while mousing with my right is superior to its opposite for me.
I would generally type with both hands at the same time, but it is useful to be able to mouse with my right hand and do the common shortcuts (ctrl+z,x,c,v) with my left. I don't know how that would work if I was mousing with my left hand. I'd have to control with my index finger and do the shortcut with my little finger? sounds awful lol
They don't have to replicate everything exactly as it was in the original machines to give the right vibe. It's similar, not a retrocomputing reproduction. Also Amiga was made by Commodore - it's in the same family. I don't expect anyone to be confused by the workbench naming though - it's a weird name, but why would anyone stick the actual workbench os on a multi-GB machine?
I got an Apple IIc vibe off it at first, but then I saw it as more like a Commodore 64C, and now I cannot unsee that.
I don't know either. I'm a developer, a very old grumpy beardy one at that. My "expert development workstation" since I began hacking on Linux almost 30 years ago has been "whatever's the fastest thing in the e-waste skip, crammed full of as much memory as I can pilfer from the rest of the scrap", and then with a brand new disk at the best price-per-gigabyte ratio I can get this afternoon from the totally-not-drug-money-laundering discount PC parts shop in town.
I don't think I've ever spent "real money" on a PC for my own use, and I doubt I ever will.
I suspect my experience mirrors that of about 50% of the folk on HN.
I’m like this, except after reseating DRAM enough times I now indulge in ECC.
Tin of Servisol and a bit of printer paper wrapped around a bank card.
Probably more like 20%, but it's the cool 20%.
> Because it's not for the developers I know – they either want a Macbook or an infinitely configurable (hardware and software) workstation
I know lots of developers (me included) who want something solid and stable and Linux, i.e. definitely not a macbook
The uniform stagger is likely to make most keyboard nerds turn their noses up too.
the choices made on the keyboard layout seem weird to me, though I do like the left hand numpad. But the big esc? the Fn key up top right seems like it makes key chords with it kind of hard. No ins key? no prt scr? is that 3 ctrl keys? or is that a caps lock? arrow keys etc seem a bit far away from main keyboard...
Including the keyboard seems a strange choice, especially when it's an oddity such as this one. Surely it'd be cheaper to add an extra USB port and have the buyer supply their own? I mouse left-handed, so a left hand numpad makes it an instant no from me - but even if you don't care what I think (which you shouldn't), there's so many other oddities in the layout as well! Where's PrtSc? Why is the Esc key so gigantic? Why is F7 not in its normal place? And, wait a moment - what is £ doing on 4? Why is € on 5?
This company is apparently based in London, but I wonder how many UK residents were involved in the design of the keyboard at least.
(I don't want to sound too mean though. It's no sin to attempt to experiment with a potential new market segment.)
From what I can tell, it's a US International layout (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards...), with some keys replaced with the mac equivalents
Given target market, I’m very surprised at lack of detailed technical specifications.
Secondly, I find it odd to see the numpad on the left side of the keyboard, rather than on the right. Maybe the ergonomics are fine, but it caught my eye as unexpected.
Actually, that was the one thing that got my attention ( throwback to very old days ). Still, muscle memory would be a pain now.
Ooooh, someone is asking for it from Amiga fans. Marketing an AIO keyboard PC with a deep back and calling the OS "Workbench"?
Courteous of them to put the numpad on the left where it BELONGS (apologies to late-80s Northgate Systems). And it's funny because I was just watching a vid about the Asus Eee Keyboard PC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asus_Eee#Eee_Keyboard) that this looks like a modern version of.
Much better specs than that old thing though, but given that it has a "vibe-designed" look about it, I think I'll pass on preordering.
I don't quite get who the product targets. The only advantage I can think of is its retro design and its unique OS. But honestly, they are not attractive enough for me to pay 2k USD. I could build a more powerful server with the same money.
i’ve been following this for a while and still find it completely wild that you can preorder but there’s effectively no details.
theres a couple completely unimpressive videos (like 15s long) from employees on linkedin where they show off… tiling window management.
This product is a massive downgrade and the price is devoid from the functionality that you can get from a typical laptop.
A Macbook Pro M5 running Asahi Linux would still be more cheaper than this trash scam.
No thanks and no deal.
Except asahi doesn't run on m5
So, basically, a headless laptop with a custom linux distro. 2K at that.
Alrighty then.
I've been following this for a while, great looking hardware, but the target market knows how to buy a computer, they don't need custom boxes.
For me this is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. I like the look, but it wouldn't even really suit my desk, I like to have my keyboard push quite far forward, and the back of this C100 would prevent that.
Really nice, might even buy one, but there is no way this succeeds long term.
I'm curious who the target expert or market is because I would not carry that clunky metal around.
The whole thing is terrible + a dedicated OS for "certain" work?
Price tag $2k? I would rather buy the Apple pouch.
I thought of buying an old CRT based terminal PC from the 80s or 90s and running SSH into a modern linux PC I have to get that old school feeling. I would rather pay for that then this.
Here's someone trying to build a serious PC focused on Linux. But the comments are very negative. And people wonder why the year of the Linux desktop still haven't arrived.
If you want PCs targeting Linux with good support... don't complain when someone tries doing exactly that.
> Here's someone trying [...] don't complain when someone tries doing exactly that.
From this site, we have no indication that any actual person is putting any kind of good-faith effort towards trying any actual thing.
All we know is that a bunch of marketers are trying to find out: Given a certain amount of marketing effort, how many people can we sign up to a mailing list, and how many people can we get to pay a $99 reservation fee, if the product proposition is: You'll get a slick-looking "Developer-Terminal" (specifics to be determined) for $1.999. -- Based on that, they will decide whether they will lift a finger to figure out what the product should actually be, let alone put any resources towards developing it.
That's where the negativity comes from. They are eroding people's good will. Good will that is sorely needed when actual companies make actual products and need actual consumers to pay attention to actual product launches.
I think a lot of the negativity comes from the odd choice of keyboard layout.
You can think of it as a weirdness budget: this is an odd-purposed device, running a specialty distribution of Linux by design. It is not portable despite having portable-like specs. And on top of this, it has an unusual keyboard layout.
It costs a lot of money and requires pre-orders, so you can't even impulse buy it. You can't actually see if you'd like the keyboard switch or layout in stores, either.
I just assumed that the keyboard designer was a left-handed accounting/Excel geek (numeric keypad on the left side of the keyboard).
I could be wrong but I think a lot of the negativity comes from people who want a modern laptop, with decent port selection, a good screen and a good keyboard, fully supported by Linux because everything is open. Quality hardware with support when you want it and open documentation and open drivers if you want to do something yourself. Like a MacBook Pro but with USB-A ports and built with 100% Linux compatibility from the ground up.
You can get a normal PC with Linux preinstalled from Lenovo, Dell, Framework, System76, etc. This isn't bringing much new other than a retro case, a few widgets, and pretentious marketing. I understand that they're probably "lean' so the first version isn't going to be impressive, but that means they need to sell it below cost not at a premium.
It’s just not a good deal and it’s a bit weird. A Framework laptop or desktop, a DIY build, or any number of other brands are better and sometimes cheaper.
you should complain a lot when the offering is not great, odd design decisions, bad price point, etc.... All of that is information to make better offerings. Instead of this thing, I think there are far better offerings from things like https://system76.com/laptops
There are some way cooler versions of this over on https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberDeck/
If by "cooler" you mean "way more difficult and awkward than just using a laptop" then you're right
Too expensive. I want something like this, minimalist hardware and a opinionated linux distro with minimal fluff. No screen persee, bit of a cyberdeck vibe maybe. This just seems overkill for running a terminal though
Beautiful webpage but I would like to know more about both the machine and the OS.
Until this 'linux based' OS is ultra minimal, including the SDK (exclude de facto ultra-complex syntax languages).
I just scanned through their ToS, "pre-installed with the proprietary Linux OS". Looks not good to me lol.
You would think they would put NixOS on it instead of Fedora.
96GB is a hell of a lot of ram for a terminal... Am I using my terminal wrong?
That's quite the long esc key. An ortholinear layout would be nice too.
Is the market engineers and scientists, rather than devs?
Is there any videos of this thing or maybe just the OS?
their in-house Workbench distro seems really cool, looks super light and minimalistic. IMHO it's also priced reasonably enough.
Might be worth to buy just for the parts
It's $1,000 worth of parts. (Although 96 GB of RAM could be worth $10,000 soon enough.)
Hard pass. Another Linux laptop with another sus distro won't teach anyone how to focus. Save a hand-me-down laptop from the landfill, install a known good distro, and do the hard work of culling distractions.
ive seen this advertised for months now. still have no idea what the hell it is.
There are huge black rectangles where screenshots should go. I'm assuming that's not supposed to be there...
The screenshots are there. I think your browser is not loading them.
It was because autoplay was disabled
Computer for Experts™
sure hope you can choose which side that ten key is on
Vaporware
This looks like the next Trump Phone.
[dead]
Its cringe to see something for enthusiasts cost 2k$ and have a keyboard layout from 100 years ago. I expect nothing less than ortholinear with thumb clusters