How come the more I hear about what Israel or Israeli companies can do with our devices makes me just not want to use a device at all? Maybe my tinfoil hat is too tight? Why are they so bold with their abilities while other countries are not? Are they just that much better, or are other nation states just better at keeping quiet?
Reminds me how at some point the U.S. was so strong that it didn’t even have to show up to dick swinging contests anymore. No military parades and the like, which feels antiquated and kind of embarrassing when you see the Russians or North Koreans doing it.
Though the Americans are into military parades again… hmmm…
Is that the strategy of hamas then? They cannot hope to win, or even achieve anything, so they just hurt the people of Gaza and the hostages because of some misguided idea that this makes them feel "strong", whatever that means?
Sadly, I think you're actually right. That that's it.
I think the boldness is a combination of 1) marketing to governments and organizations around the world and 2) knowing there will be no consequences either domestic or international for what they do.
If factories filled with civilians are fair game for conventional attacks in total war. Why not cyber attacks on cell phones and electronics needed by the civilians to do those same jobs?
A state (or a carrier, in theory), doesn't need RCEs to do this. In every phone, the "actual phone", what talks to cell towers, is a separate system called the Baseband. It is a full computer, storage, memory, encryption, ... and it is under the control of carriers and through them of law enforcement and the like. It is also where the microphone and mostly the cameras are connected. The baseband then passes them through to the UI, like android or IOS. It's how carriers enforce disabling wifi when mobile data is active unless you pay extra, for example.
But it can copy the sound of a phone call to separate channels, or copy the data being sent (even on wifi), or it can activate emergency messages or broadcasts. It can also transmit audio and video when the phone is not actually in a call. That sort of thing.
In practice there are a great many different basebands and of course most states couldn't be bothered to actually write a decent system to use them (well, they tried forcing carriers to do it for them, but anyone who ever worked at a large carrier on a big project can tell you how that went), so only lowest common denominator features are in practice accessible. That means location and getting audio. But nothing is stopping countries from implementing more. I bet the NSA has something with a lot more features, for example.
The later.
While I applaud Israel capabilities the are not unique. USA and china has more mony, talent and access to the hardware/software that is actually used to build the networks
In the verbally given version of the speech that isn't shortened to a tweet (https://www.nbcnews.com/video/shorts/israel-pm-says-they-use...) this is explicitly directed "to the jailers of our hostages", and in that context, it seems pretty reasonable.
"After the deadly offensive by Hamas against Israel in October 2023, Ismail Haniyeh, who replaced Mashaal as head of the Hamas political bureau in exile, again invoked religious rhetoric. “Today, the enemy has had a political, military, intelligence, security and moral defeat inflicted upon it, and we shall crown it, with the grace of God, with a crushing defeat that will expel it from our lands, our holy city of al Quds, our al Aqsa mosque, and the release of our prisoners from the jails of the Zionist occupation,” he said." [1]
Excerpts from the Hamas Covenant [1]:
"Article 8:
Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."
"Article 15:
The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised."
Hamas' *literal* goal is the extermination of Jews and the Jewish people. That's literally genocide.[2][3]
...now don't get me wrong — I don't side with Netanyahu or what his government have been doing — but that doesn't change the fact that Hamas' goal is the eradication of the only Jewish state in the world, and it's people — actual genocide.
The attacks on October 7, 2023 were much more than a "hate crime" as you mistakenly claim... and your whataboutism is just immature, and isn't conducive to actual discourse.
Maybe not doing everything we can to legitimise Hamas by dehumanising the entire Palestinian people would be a start. Back a dog into a corner then euthanise it for biting you... Disgusting
> The prime minister’s office also claimed that the Israeli army had taken over mobile phones in Gaza to broadcast his message, though AP journalists inside Gaza saw no immediate evidence of Netanyahu’s speech being broadcast on phones there.
You don't have to hack anything if you control ip routes. A simple redirect like a captive portal could accomplish something like this. Israel can either own the gateways or own the spectrum.
I think it is more likely that the Israeli government would have abused Gaza's wireless emergency alert system to send a link to a live stream to every cell phone. AFAIK, emergency alert systems are limited to text messages but smartphones will recognise URLs to allow users to tap to open them.
But a user would have needed to actively tap on the link to open the stream.
Not because it would be impossible, although the "every phone" is a bit of a stretch given how hard it would be to build an exploit that reliably works on all the messed up versions of Android that vendors put out.
But because if you had a capability like this, you wouldn't burn several full exploit chains just to broadcast a speech.
Doing something on the network side (either compromising existing infrastructure, simply being the infrastructure provider, or providing fake base stations) and then simply calling each phone - sure.
Pushing emergency alert cell broadcast messages with a link to the stream - sure.
This. How can you know you hacked EVERY phone. I have friends with flip phones (no screen). There must be at least a small amount of optimistic thinking here.
IMHO someone was likely given a task such as "disseminate the message to 100% of the population" and they found a way to claim they accomplished the task (with reasonable credibility).
Pegasus is just the commercial stuff, too. The IDF certainly has it's own panoply of exploits/payloads in addition to their profoundly privileged CIA access.
In the UK we recently had a test of the emergency alert system. Most people had an alarm and a message on screen, with phones locked. There were a few incidents of motorists ending up in road traffic accidents in the immediate aftermath, and some phones reportedly spoke the announcement rather than just beep loudly.
Since the 'beep' is just an audio file, my hunch is that some A/B testing was going on, with most people getting the 'beep' and some getting the message read out.
I imagine that broadcast capability is fully built in, so that mobile phones can replace what we had in the olden days when the government could take over the TV and radio to broadcast whatever they thought was important. I can't remember the last time that the U.S. President spoke to the people in this way, but it used to be fairly common.
I don't think that calling every phone is plausible. In a competitive telecoms market, no provider would build that out. Instead they would keep capacity just above what they know is needed on a daily basis.
Every phone in Israel got a special message when missiles from Iran were fired.
No application, no nothing, just by the virtue of being connected to to an Israeli phone cell tower (it worked even on imported phones)
My understanding that it is a standard feature, this is how earthquake warning works in Japan.
Point being there is no "hacking" involved. Standard feature
Sounds like boomer-speak for they sent one of those full-screen SMS messages (aka 'flash SMS') with a link to a livestream.
You guys read too much Tom Clancy.
If spammers can do it and send me links to phishing sites so can one of the most technologically-proficient governments. You really think they would waste multiple 0-days on some bullshit like this?
Isn't this is the nation that planted explosives into pagers? I think they're the ones reading too much Clancy.
> so can one of the most technologically-proficient governments.
How would you feel if China did this to your nation? Would you marvel at their proficiency or perhaps focus on the complete lack of diplomacy it displays?
> the responsible adult that was in charge of my protection
So you're infantilizing an entire nation to make this point?
> So he should surrender and spare us the war.
Do you have any measure on this sentiment among the population currently? If it is, as it is in so many places, that the leaders actions are detached from the will of the voters, then what should we make of this?
Should they be allowed to surrender to a _neutral_ party?
Should they be allowed to keep their state?
Is there any reason not to presume a peaceful negotiation under these terms? Is there any reason to attempt to assassinate the party trying to coordinate this?
> How would you feel? Insulted?
Violated. These are _our_ emergency broadcast services. They should be used for the intended purpose and not to force an angry political message on a powerless population.
Do you not have any good faith in yourself for this topic?
Your comment is all over the place, but it is very telling. You are a confused westerner. First is you feeling "violated", how is that constructive in any way? functioning adults, while they might feel violated, will search for a course of action that will remedy the situation. It can be a big thing, it can be a small thing, it can be anything in between: It can be a tiktok post about our bad enemies and ask for donation, it can searching for a gun to kill one of the enemies, it can be doing a course about network management and blocking them next time. It can also be a tiktok post about voicing the need to surrender, it can be joining the locals that rising up against the leadership, it can be collaborating with with the said enemy.
As a member of a society, that is in a war for the last 2 years, with no prospect of wining, a war the my leadership started, I know what I will choose.
One of the main reasons that this war is being drugged on is confused westerns like you, you don't really care about the suffering of the population, you just don't want the "bad guys" to win no matter the cost of lives. When will you pressure them to surrender?! how do you sleep at night? seriously?
And as measure of sentiment among the population you should watch this [0] starting about 1:40 into the interview
He's the head of state of a member country. Afaik, all member countries have a slot to give a speech at the general assembly. There's probably a slot for observer states and other acknowledged non-member states as well.
I don't see why Putin would be prohibited from making a speech in the time alloted for speeches either? He's the head of state of a member country as well. And it's one of the permanent members of the security council, so among equal peers, it's more equal. Russia's slot is currently listed as Saturday morning [1], I don't know who will speak.
Putin has treaty rights to attend the General Assembly, same as Netanyahu. Neither are under legal threat in the U.S. as we never signed the Rome Statute that established the ICC.
Axios reported this claim and also reported there have been no verified examples of a phone receiving the broadcast as of an hour ago.
https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-pm-76a155d0-9b02-11f...
Israel often imposes internet blackouts in Gaza so it could also be likely that word just hasn’t made it out.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-hit-by-teleco...
How come the more I hear about what Israel or Israeli companies can do with our devices makes me just not want to use a device at all? Maybe my tinfoil hat is too tight? Why are they so bold with their abilities while other countries are not? Are they just that much better, or are other nation states just better at keeping quiet?
When you’re weak you have you act strong.
Reminds me how at some point the U.S. was so strong that it didn’t even have to show up to dick swinging contests anymore. No military parades and the like, which feels antiquated and kind of embarrassing when you see the Russians or North Koreans doing it.
Though the Americans are into military parades again… hmmm…
Is that the strategy of hamas then? They cannot hope to win, or even achieve anything, so they just hurt the people of Gaza and the hostages because of some misguided idea that this makes them feel "strong", whatever that means?
Sadly, I think you're actually right. That that's it.
I’m not even sure it’s a “strategy” for anyone. I think it’s just a consequence of being weak and being (or feeling) threatened.
Not unlike bullies. I don’t think bullies make the conscious decision to be that way.
I think the boldness is a combination of 1) marketing to governments and organizations around the world and 2) knowing there will be no consequences either domestic or international for what they do.
You probably took your security for granted? I'm being perfectly serious, RCEs like this are table-stakes for modern cyber-warfare.
Cyber-warfare probably shouldn't involve the entire civilian population's phones.
If factories filled with civilians are fair game for conventional attacks in total war. Why not cyber attacks on cell phones and electronics needed by the civilians to do those same jobs?
A state (or a carrier, in theory), doesn't need RCEs to do this. In every phone, the "actual phone", what talks to cell towers, is a separate system called the Baseband. It is a full computer, storage, memory, encryption, ... and it is under the control of carriers and through them of law enforcement and the like. It is also where the microphone and mostly the cameras are connected. The baseband then passes them through to the UI, like android or IOS. It's how carriers enforce disabling wifi when mobile data is active unless you pay extra, for example.
But it can copy the sound of a phone call to separate channels, or copy the data being sent (even on wifi), or it can activate emergency messages or broadcasts. It can also transmit audio and video when the phone is not actually in a call. That sort of thing.
In practice there are a great many different basebands and of course most states couldn't be bothered to actually write a decent system to use them (well, they tried forcing carriers to do it for them, but anyone who ever worked at a large carrier on a big project can tell you how that went), so only lowest common denominator features are in practice accessible. That means location and getting audio. But nothing is stopping countries from implementing more. I bet the NSA has something with a lot more features, for example.
both
1. israel cyberarmy is just better
2. they dont need to hide it anymore (where US and china do it may gain unnecessary publicity)
The later. While I applaud Israel capabilities the are not unique. USA and china has more mony, talent and access to the hardware/software that is actually used to build the networks
"Those who do not will be hunted" just feels gross. There's something sinister there
In the verbally given version of the speech that isn't shortened to a tweet (https://www.nbcnews.com/video/shorts/israel-pm-says-they-use...) this is explicitly directed "to the jailers of our hostages", and in that context, it seems pretty reasonable.
> and in that context, it seems pretty reasonable.
Let's allow the ICC to decide that for us, with the wealth of available evidence at their disposal.
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"After the deadly offensive by Hamas against Israel in October 2023, Ismail Haniyeh, who replaced Mashaal as head of the Hamas political bureau in exile, again invoked religious rhetoric. “Today, the enemy has had a political, military, intelligence, security and moral defeat inflicted upon it, and we shall crown it, with the grace of God, with a crushing defeat that will expel it from our lands, our holy city of al Quds, our al Aqsa mosque, and the release of our prisoners from the jails of the Zionist occupation,” he said." [1]
Excerpts from the Hamas Covenant [1]:
"Article 8:
Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."
"Article 15:
The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised."
Hamas' *literal* goal is the extermination of Jews and the Jewish people. That's literally genocide.[2][3]
[1] https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas
[2] https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis...
[3] https://opil.ouplaw.com/display/10.1093/law:epil/97801992316...
...now don't get me wrong — I don't side with Netanyahu or what his government have been doing — but that doesn't change the fact that Hamas' goal is the eradication of the only Jewish state in the world, and it's people — actual genocide.
The attacks on October 7, 2023 were much more than a "hate crime" as you mistakenly claim... and your whataboutism is just immature, and isn't conducive to actual discourse.
Maybe not doing everything we can to legitimise Hamas by dehumanising the entire Palestinian people would be a start. Back a dog into a corner then euthanise it for biting you... Disgusting
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Better coverage from:
AP https://apnews.com/article/un-general-assembly-israel-netany...
NBC https://www.nbcnews.com/video/shorts/israel-pm-says-they-use... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45387273)
From the AP:
> The prime minister’s office also claimed that the Israeli army had taken over mobile phones in Gaza to broadcast his message, though AP journalists inside Gaza saw no immediate evidence of Netanyahu’s speech being broadcast on phones there.
You don't have to hack anything if you control ip routes. A simple redirect like a captive portal could accomplish something like this. Israel can either own the gateways or own the spectrum.
No one has mentioned that "hacked" appears nowhere in the tweet and seems to be editorializing on the part of the submitter.
If true, the tech requirements imply they could do this in any other country, or worldwide.
If true...
I'd like more details. Did they really hack the phones? Or use the towers to call the phones with a message.
Hacking every cellphone sounds unrealistic.
Making a call to every phone connected to a tower sounds plausible.
I think it is more likely that the Israeli government would have abused Gaza's wireless emergency alert system to send a link to a live stream to every cell phone. AFAIK, emergency alert systems are limited to text messages but smartphones will recognise URLs to allow users to tap to open them.
But a user would have needed to actively tap on the link to open the stream.
Yeah my initial thought would be it sends something like a Amber alert with messages -- a bit stretch of the truth
Is it really unrealistic though? Considering Israeli Pegasus spyware alone? Honest question.
Kind of.
Not because it would be impossible, although the "every phone" is a bit of a stretch given how hard it would be to build an exploit that reliably works on all the messed up versions of Android that vendors put out.
But because if you had a capability like this, you wouldn't burn several full exploit chains just to broadcast a speech.
Doing something on the network side (either compromising existing infrastructure, simply being the infrastructure provider, or providing fake base stations) and then simply calling each phone - sure.
Pushing emergency alert cell broadcast messages with a link to the stream - sure.
Actually exploiting the phones? Nah.
This. How can you know you hacked EVERY phone. I have friends with flip phones (no screen). There must be at least a small amount of optimistic thinking here.
IMHO someone was likely given a task such as "disseminate the message to 100% of the population" and they found a way to claim they accomplished the task (with reasonable credibility).
Pegasus is just the commercial stuff, too. The IDF certainly has it's own panoply of exploits/payloads in addition to their profoundly privileged CIA access.
Or possibly they hacked (or stole credentials for) the switch/tower gear in order to send those calls/messages.
This is more along the lines of what I was suggesting
In the UK we recently had a test of the emergency alert system. Most people had an alarm and a message on screen, with phones locked. There were a few incidents of motorists ending up in road traffic accidents in the immediate aftermath, and some phones reportedly spoke the announcement rather than just beep loudly.
Since the 'beep' is just an audio file, my hunch is that some A/B testing was going on, with most people getting the 'beep' and some getting the message read out.
I imagine that broadcast capability is fully built in, so that mobile phones can replace what we had in the olden days when the government could take over the TV and radio to broadcast whatever they thought was important. I can't remember the last time that the U.S. President spoke to the people in this way, but it used to be fairly common.
I don't think that calling every phone is plausible. In a competitive telecoms market, no provider would build that out. Instead they would keep capacity just above what they know is needed on a daily basis.
> some phones reportedly spoke the announcement rather than just beep loudly.
Reportedly, some phones have a setting to toggle TTS for emergency alerts...
Every phone in Israel got a special message when missiles from Iran were fired. No application, no nothing, just by the virtue of being connected to to an Israeli phone cell tower (it worked even on imported phones)
My understanding that it is a standard feature, this is how earthquake warning works in Japan.
Point being there is no "hacking" involved. Standard feature
Basically a modern version of leaflets.
With all that being said, I'd consider that a gross misuse of emergency functionality.
I don't like having missiles fired at me, but if it's going to happen, an emergency warning would be greatly appreciated.
A warning to take shelter from incoming missiles seems quite reasonable use of emergency broadcast systems to me.
I believe he’s talking about using it for Netanyahu’s speech
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Sounds like boomer-speak for they sent one of those full-screen SMS messages (aka 'flash SMS') with a link to a livestream.
You guys read too much Tom Clancy.
If spammers can do it and send me links to phishing sites so can one of the most technologically-proficient governments. You really think they would waste multiple 0-days on some bullshit like this?
> too much Tom Clancy.
Isn't this is the nation that planted explosives into pagers? I think they're the ones reading too much Clancy.
> so can one of the most technologically-proficient governments.
How would you feel if China did this to your nation? Would you marvel at their proficiency or perhaps focus on the complete lack of diplomacy it displays?
I would feel that the responsible adult that was in charge of my protection is doing a lousy job. So he should surrender and spare us the war.
How would you feel? Insulted?
> the responsible adult that was in charge of my protection
So you're infantilizing an entire nation to make this point?
> So he should surrender and spare us the war.
Do you have any measure on this sentiment among the population currently? If it is, as it is in so many places, that the leaders actions are detached from the will of the voters, then what should we make of this?
Should they be allowed to surrender to a _neutral_ party?
Should they be allowed to keep their state?
Is there any reason not to presume a peaceful negotiation under these terms? Is there any reason to attempt to assassinate the party trying to coordinate this?
> How would you feel? Insulted?
Violated. These are _our_ emergency broadcast services. They should be used for the intended purpose and not to force an angry political message on a powerless population.
Do you not have any good faith in yourself for this topic?
Your comment is all over the place, but it is very telling. You are a confused westerner. First is you feeling "violated", how is that constructive in any way? functioning adults, while they might feel violated, will search for a course of action that will remedy the situation. It can be a big thing, it can be a small thing, it can be anything in between: It can be a tiktok post about our bad enemies and ask for donation, it can searching for a gun to kill one of the enemies, it can be doing a course about network management and blocking them next time. It can also be a tiktok post about voicing the need to surrender, it can be joining the locals that rising up against the leadership, it can be collaborating with with the said enemy.
As a member of a society, that is in a war for the last 2 years, with no prospect of wining, a war the my leadership started, I know what I will choose.
One of the main reasons that this war is being drugged on is confused westerns like you, you don't really care about the suffering of the population, you just don't want the "bad guys" to win no matter the cost of lives. When will you pressure them to surrender?! how do you sleep at night? seriously?
And as measure of sentiment among the population you should watch this [0] starting about 1:40 into the interview
[0] - https://edition.cnn.com/2025/09/25/middleeast/hamas-official...
> You guys read too much Tom Clancy.
Seymour Hersh, actually.
I feel kind of weird that Netanyahu was allowed to give a speech from the UN HQ. It’s rather like allowing Putin to do so.
He's the head of state of a member country. Afaik, all member countries have a slot to give a speech at the general assembly. There's probably a slot for observer states and other acknowledged non-member states as well.
I don't see why Putin would be prohibited from making a speech in the time alloted for speeches either? He's the head of state of a member country as well. And it's one of the permanent members of the security council, so among equal peers, it's more equal. Russia's slot is currently listed as Saturday morning [1], I don't know who will speak.
[1] https://www.thenationalnews.com/news/us/2025/09/15/un-genera...
> rather like allowing Putin to do so
Putin has treaty rights to attend the General Assembly, same as Netanyahu. Neither are under legal threat in the U.S. as we never signed the Rome Statute that established the ICC.
Mamdani has said once elected he will arrest Netanyahu if he returns.
He didn't mention any legal basis for the thread. A city major can't exactly overrule congress and sign the Rome Statute.
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