The only sources cited are you and the anonymous testimonials from your website. I don’t see anywhere in the article that says that anyone at Fortune has ever seen your product at work, let alone that someone at Fortune observed it outperforming human negotiators.
And to top it off, it says right at the bottom that it was written by AI.
80 character limit on the post title is why I edited it in that way. Thanks for the feedback. Also the article was entirely organic. The journalist saw our article/interview in PYMNTS from last week (as referenced in the Fortune piece) and then wrote this. He interviewed me yesterday. This is a bummer. I have been building this company for six years and am so proud of what we have accomplished. I hope we can get this post back on the front page. It's a tremendous moment for our team and company and I am so excited to get feedback from commenters here on HN.
A few issues I see. First is what does it do when you come across a no-haggle dealership? Next is does this negotiate the value of your trade-in? Finally, the initial negotiation up front on the sale price (and trade-in value if applicable) is only the first hurdle. When you have to come in and sign the paperwork and get your keys, that's when a lot of dealerships really try to tighten the screws. Oh you need an extra warranty! Or you need paint protection and nitrogen filled tires! How about that one-time fee for lifetime oil changes and maintenance?
“only those who are highly qualified and serious shoppers”
Ah, so basically, this is only good if you’re able to actually buy a car, and not having to worry about what bank the dealer’s going to shove you through, in which case you don’t get leverage in the purchasing process at all anyways.
While dealers definitely want and push you to use their financing, you are NEVER required to do so. I have many times brought a cashier's check to the dealer and told them they can take the amount I'm offering or leave it and I'll go to the next dealer in town that has the same exact car--showing them the listing.
I have only been turned down a handful of times w/this method. Most seemed happy to know there was less for them to do and they could quickly move on to their next sale/victim.
> I have only been turned down a handful of times w/this method.
As someone who has only bought two cars in their adult life and doesn't foresee buying more than two or three more before I die, "a handful of times" seems like a lot.
OP here. I’m not sure I understand your point. The AI Negotiator is only intended for customers who want to buy a car — that’s what we mean by qualified.
No, this works for customers who are financing the purchase of their vehicle, leasing, or paying cash. The AI Agent negotiates the out-the-door price for the user regardless of payment method and then goes from there.
Dealers sometimes have promos or get spiffs for selling financing which can further reduce the price for a net savings to the buyer.
On one purchase we were upfront from the start that we were paying cash but after we negotiated the final price the dealer told us the manufacturer was offering a $1,000 rebate off the dealer's final price for cars financed through their plan. They pointed out the deal only required keeping the loan for six months at which time we could pay it off with no prepayment penalty. Since the financing had a 0% promo rate for the first year, we took the loan, made payments for five months and paid off the balance at six months and saved an extra $1,000 at no cost. The dealer said the manufacturer was aware people could do this and bank free money and were fine with the dealer suggesting it to cash buyers.
I guess they were counting on some cash buyers deciding to keep the loan after six months. The dealer didn't care either way since they got a spiff for selling the loan and we got an extra $1K off. We carefully penciled out the numbers and there was no trick (my wife worked in finance). A few weeks later we got a $1,000 check direct from the manufacturer's finance arm and ended up paying nothing more than our out-the-door price (plus the inconvenience of writing five monthly payment checks). Essentially, our $1K was funded by the profit from people who kept the loan. This was also a good reminder that any time a dealer is offering 0% financing (or financing well below the market rate like "no payments for X months" deals), that discounted financing has a real cost that's being paid by the seller (because money has a fixed time value). So a cash buyer who doesn't use that discounted promo financing saves the seller money and should be able to claw that value back into their final price.
So, does is your AI handle this kind of situation during the negotiation? I'm also curious how deep your AI's knowledge of various strategies and tactics unique to auto transactions goes? Just having an AI to deal with all the back-and-forth communication and obvious negotiating gambits to get to a "final out-the-door price" is good but if it was more deeply prompted to be savvy to the level of exploring ways to save money which can vary based on a buyer's (or dealer's) unique situational context - that's even more valuable. Things like model year timing, dealer incentives, buyer flexibility on car model/features, delivery or purchase timing.
There are ways to pay cash from the dealer’s viewpoint even if you don’t have the cash— whole life policy loans, credit union loans, borrowing temporarily from retirement accounts (then financing to repay). So, it’s not the worst limitation. Anyway, having the cash is the best negotiating position, so this shouldn’t be a big surprise.
> Notably, the service isn’t free. Customers pay $40 for a month of access without auto-renewal.
This makes it seem like this "AI negotiator" is $40/month, but it looks like it's not included at all for that plan. Seems like it's $399 or $999:
https://caredge.com/plans
https://caredge.com/plans/insights
https://caredge.com/plans/concierge
It is $40 :-) https://caredge.com/ai
This post is an ad.
How can you say this is an ad? Fortune wrote an article about my company and I posted it here. How is that an ad?
The only sources cited are you and the anonymous testimonials from your website. I don’t see anywhere in the article that says that anyone at Fortune has ever seen your product at work, let alone that someone at Fortune observed it outperforming human negotiators.
And to top it off, it says right at the bottom that it was written by AI.
This is an ad.
Yeah a definitely totally organic article. Also I like that you changed the title from “This CEO says his AI can haggle” to “AI successfully haggles”
80 character limit on the post title is why I edited it in that way. Thanks for the feedback. Also the article was entirely organic. The journalist saw our article/interview in PYMNTS from last week (as referenced in the Fortune piece) and then wrote this. He interviewed me yesterday. This is a bummer. I have been building this company for six years and am so proud of what we have accomplished. I hope we can get this post back on the front page. It's a tremendous moment for our team and company and I am so excited to get feedback from commenters here on HN.
A few issues I see. First is what does it do when you come across a no-haggle dealership? Next is does this negotiate the value of your trade-in? Finally, the initial negotiation up front on the sale price (and trade-in value if applicable) is only the first hurdle. When you have to come in and sign the paperwork and get your keys, that's when a lot of dealerships really try to tighten the screws. Oh you need an extra warranty! Or you need paint protection and nitrogen filled tires! How about that one-time fee for lifetime oil changes and maintenance?
“only those who are highly qualified and serious shoppers”
Ah, so basically, this is only good if you’re able to actually buy a car, and not having to worry about what bank the dealer’s going to shove you through, in which case you don’t get leverage in the purchasing process at all anyways.
While dealers definitely want and push you to use their financing, you are NEVER required to do so. I have many times brought a cashier's check to the dealer and told them they can take the amount I'm offering or leave it and I'll go to the next dealer in town that has the same exact car--showing them the listing.
I have only been turned down a handful of times w/this method. Most seemed happy to know there was less for them to do and they could quickly move on to their next sale/victim.
How many cars are you buying?
I've been driving for 30y. I've bought 10 vehicles in my life.
> I have only been turned down a handful of times w/this method.
As someone who has only bought two cars in their adult life and doesn't foresee buying more than two or three more before I die, "a handful of times" seems like a lot.
If you believe it's not worth your time to save $X, then by all means, use dealer financing and don't haggle.
OP here. I’m not sure I understand your point. The AI Negotiator is only intended for customers who want to buy a car — that’s what we mean by qualified.
It seems like they’re saying this only works for people paying cash.
No, this works for customers who are financing the purchase of their vehicle, leasing, or paying cash. The AI Agent negotiates the out-the-door price for the user regardless of payment method and then goes from there.
Dealers sometimes have promos or get spiffs for selling financing which can further reduce the price for a net savings to the buyer.
On one purchase we were upfront from the start that we were paying cash but after we negotiated the final price the dealer told us the manufacturer was offering a $1,000 rebate off the dealer's final price for cars financed through their plan. They pointed out the deal only required keeping the loan for six months at which time we could pay it off with no prepayment penalty. Since the financing had a 0% promo rate for the first year, we took the loan, made payments for five months and paid off the balance at six months and saved an extra $1,000 at no cost. The dealer said the manufacturer was aware people could do this and bank free money and were fine with the dealer suggesting it to cash buyers.
I guess they were counting on some cash buyers deciding to keep the loan after six months. The dealer didn't care either way since they got a spiff for selling the loan and we got an extra $1K off. We carefully penciled out the numbers and there was no trick (my wife worked in finance). A few weeks later we got a $1,000 check direct from the manufacturer's finance arm and ended up paying nothing more than our out-the-door price (plus the inconvenience of writing five monthly payment checks). Essentially, our $1K was funded by the profit from people who kept the loan. This was also a good reminder that any time a dealer is offering 0% financing (or financing well below the market rate like "no payments for X months" deals), that discounted financing has a real cost that's being paid by the seller (because money has a fixed time value). So a cash buyer who doesn't use that discounted promo financing saves the seller money and should be able to claw that value back into their final price.
So, does is your AI handle this kind of situation during the negotiation? I'm also curious how deep your AI's knowledge of various strategies and tactics unique to auto transactions goes? Just having an AI to deal with all the back-and-forth communication and obvious negotiating gambits to get to a "final out-the-door price" is good but if it was more deeply prompted to be savvy to the level of exploring ways to save money which can vary based on a buyer's (or dealer's) unique situational context - that's even more valuable. Things like model year timing, dealer incentives, buyer flexibility on car model/features, delivery or purchase timing.
Wake me up when your AI can work with a sub-600 FICO and get them out the door with keys in hand.
There are ways to pay cash from the dealer’s viewpoint even if you don’t have the cash— whole life policy loans, credit union loans, borrowing temporarily from retirement accounts (then financing to repay). So, it’s not the worst limitation. Anyway, having the cash is the best negotiating position, so this shouldn’t be a big surprise.
It might be due to regulation. An AI selling a loan product is a different ball game.
I think this is a great business idea.
It's exactly the kind of dotcom era startup idea that could make someone a lot of cash.
It's straight forward and it scratches an itch that many people have.
kudos to you man.
Thanks! Six years in the making ... We started as a YouTube channel (me and my dad), and now we are here. So fun. So cool. What a time to be building!