I empathize with the author of this post, but is this really the type of story we want on HN? Does this inspire intellectual curiosity? I just feel a directionless anger after reading this.
Ragebait that buries the lede: The author initiated the conversation with the boss, not the other way around. The company was losing money and had to cut staff.
Even the introductory sentence has the puzzling statement “one of my jobs” which raises a lot of questions. Was this person over-employed? Was this part-time contracting situation?
A lot of missing details here, funny the headline makes the boss seem heartless for doing something so unprofessional when the text reveals it's because the author pestered him while he was on vacation.
I mean he's the manager who did not manage. At the end of the day, all people are humans. And if you feel like something is about to go wrong with your stability, it's a natural reaction to ask.
I'm guessing this is fiction, but it's not unreasonable. Employers love to harp on about "loyalty," "being family," and "caring for you." Try to remember the last time any employer of yours has demonstrated these traits for either you or a, functionally ex-, colleague.
We need to stop participating in this brouhaha as an industry. If your employer wanted to demonstrate loyalty you would see it in your contract.
Operating a business is hard? Well, yes, so is surviving.
Agencies use a lot of contractors. This sounds like a part time contractor kind of gig not full time based on the details.
Not that this makes everything OK, but that would explain the weeks of silence followed by termination over whatsapp. It’s possible there were no further formal requirements to sever the relationship besides ceasing communication.
The story is wildly different based on what job the person has. Are they supposed to be a senior-ish employee who is supposed to know what to do without being told? (Pardon my ignorance) Do people at agencies usually get assigned tasks by a project manager and that's it, they have no agency or independence in picking up tasks?
If a senior engineer who's supposed to be independent and who knows that messages me on a personal number while I'm on vacation, I probably wouldn't fire them immediately, but that person is unlikely to be considered a high performer.
Totally different situation for a panicking junior, which is a situation that means I've done something more wrong.
The author comes across as unsympathetic because he seems to have a near-total failure to model the world. He can model one resentful aspect of it, but not the rest.
> He said he was letting me go because my department was the most expensive in the agency, and that last month the company closed in the red for the very first time. He told me, very sadly, that he even had to take out a loan to pay his mortgage, and that cutting costs was the only way to keep the agency alive. All of this, of course, from his vacation in Hawaii.
If you are a business or a department of a business and losing money, it's often sensible to axe it. Yes that may involve axing some or all of the people involved, but there's no "oh well we're losing money, but I'm rich enough, better let the business keep losing money" reasoning. That is generally considered incoherent. This feels like "money comes from the money store" levels of reasoning.
> I just hope that someday my boss can forgive me and give me another chance to make him richer, without expecting anything in return, not even the tiniest bit of empathy or courage it takes to fire someone while looking them in the eye.
Emphasis mine. Presumably this person was paid? If he was doing unpaid work for a boss for profit, maybe this would make more sense. But under normal circumstances he absolutely expecting - and getting - something in return.
I would recommend that the author try to go into business for himself. It may be the only way to really understand what he is missing, if he has missed it all these years.
If you have been ghosted by your employer for a few weeks, and he then brings personal struggles into the conversation of firing you, it is understandable that the author would have some gripes.
The manager/owner failed to manage in any number of ways (graceful exits, cash flow, task assignment), and then brought his personal problems to a firing (you should not - ever - mention your own financial issues while firing an employee from your Hawaiian vacation).
You are right that business is transactional, but there is the underlying notion of goodwill (which accountants can and do put on the balance sheet). It is the reason why we tell our old employer that we are leaving in two weeks instead of ghosting them the day our new job starts. It is the reason that you don’t fire people over text from a Hawaiian vacation. You don’t want to be the employee with the reputation for giving no notice, and you don’t want to be the employer with a reputation for firing people heartlessly. The employer in this case significantly reduced the goodwill part of their balance sheet to save a few weeks of salary for this guy. Do you think the other employees won’t read this? What will the morale hit among other employees cost the business? Would you stay at a business where the owner is firing people like this while admitting to personal financial problems?
The lead sentence casually includes “fired from one of my jobs” without further details, which raises even more questions.
Either this person was a part-time contractor, where being cut during down times comes with the territory, or they were overemployed with multiple jobs, which comes with a tendency to do sub-par work and communication from being overcommitted.
So you are trying to shame your boss for firing you over WhatsApp while he was on vacation in Hawaii, when you were the one who repeatedly messaged him, including on his personal WhatsApp number, while he was on vacation in Hawaii?
You could have gotten paid for a few more weeks (and maybe even secured a severance) had you been patient and let the official layoff notice come to you.
Agreed. I can't help but think about what the actual story is here. The author clearly doesn't know all of the details and is making a lot of assumptions of malice.
I empathize with the author of this post, but is this really the type of story we want on HN? Does this inspire intellectual curiosity? I just feel a directionless anger after reading this.
Give it time, it should [1] go down to where it belongs. :-)
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1781013
Ragebait that buries the lede: The author initiated the conversation with the boss, not the other way around. The company was losing money and had to cut staff.
Even the introductory sentence has the puzzling statement “one of my jobs” which raises a lot of questions. Was this person over-employed? Was this part-time contracting situation?
This is just anger bait.
A lot of missing details here, funny the headline makes the boss seem heartless for doing something so unprofessional when the text reveals it's because the author pestered him while he was on vacation.
Surely the article was in satire?
If nothing else, pestering the boss while on vacation is a bad sign.
I don't think it was satire, I think the author is just really mad right now and is lashing out.
I mean he's the manager who did not manage. At the end of the day, all people are humans. And if you feel like something is about to go wrong with your stability, it's a natural reaction to ask.
I'm guessing this is fiction, but it's not unreasonable. Employers love to harp on about "loyalty," "being family," and "caring for you." Try to remember the last time any employer of yours has demonstrated these traits for either you or a, functionally ex-, colleague.
We need to stop participating in this brouhaha as an industry. If your employer wanted to demonstrate loyalty you would see it in your contract.
Operating a business is hard? Well, yes, so is surviving.
Agencies use a lot of contractors. This sounds like a part time contractor kind of gig not full time based on the details.
Not that this makes everything OK, but that would explain the weeks of silence followed by termination over whatsapp. It’s possible there were no further formal requirements to sever the relationship besides ceasing communication.
The story is wildly different based on what job the person has. Are they supposed to be a senior-ish employee who is supposed to know what to do without being told? (Pardon my ignorance) Do people at agencies usually get assigned tasks by a project manager and that's it, they have no agency or independence in picking up tasks?
If a senior engineer who's supposed to be independent and who knows that messages me on a personal number while I'm on vacation, I probably wouldn't fire them immediately, but that person is unlikely to be considered a high performer.
Totally different situation for a panicking junior, which is a situation that means I've done something more wrong.
The author comes across as unsympathetic because he seems to have a near-total failure to model the world. He can model one resentful aspect of it, but not the rest.
> He said he was letting me go because my department was the most expensive in the agency, and that last month the company closed in the red for the very first time. He told me, very sadly, that he even had to take out a loan to pay his mortgage, and that cutting costs was the only way to keep the agency alive. All of this, of course, from his vacation in Hawaii.
If you are a business or a department of a business and losing money, it's often sensible to axe it. Yes that may involve axing some or all of the people involved, but there's no "oh well we're losing money, but I'm rich enough, better let the business keep losing money" reasoning. That is generally considered incoherent. This feels like "money comes from the money store" levels of reasoning.
> I just hope that someday my boss can forgive me and give me another chance to make him richer, without expecting anything in return, not even the tiniest bit of empathy or courage it takes to fire someone while looking them in the eye.
Emphasis mine. Presumably this person was paid? If he was doing unpaid work for a boss for profit, maybe this would make more sense. But under normal circumstances he absolutely expecting - and getting - something in return.
I would recommend that the author try to go into business for himself. It may be the only way to really understand what he is missing, if he has missed it all these years.
If you have been ghosted by your employer for a few weeks, and he then brings personal struggles into the conversation of firing you, it is understandable that the author would have some gripes.
The manager/owner failed to manage in any number of ways (graceful exits, cash flow, task assignment), and then brought his personal problems to a firing (you should not - ever - mention your own financial issues while firing an employee from your Hawaiian vacation).
You are right that business is transactional, but there is the underlying notion of goodwill (which accountants can and do put on the balance sheet). It is the reason why we tell our old employer that we are leaving in two weeks instead of ghosting them the day our new job starts. It is the reason that you don’t fire people over text from a Hawaiian vacation. You don’t want to be the employee with the reputation for giving no notice, and you don’t want to be the employer with a reputation for firing people heartlessly. The employer in this case significantly reduced the goodwill part of their balance sheet to save a few weeks of salary for this guy. Do you think the other employees won’t read this? What will the morale hit among other employees cost the business? Would you stay at a business where the owner is firing people like this while admitting to personal financial problems?
The lead sentence casually includes “fired from one of my jobs” without further details, which raises even more questions.
Either this person was a part-time contractor, where being cut during down times comes with the territory, or they were overemployed with multiple jobs, which comes with a tendency to do sub-par work and communication from being overcommitted.
So you are trying to shame your boss for firing you over WhatsApp while he was on vacation in Hawaii, when you were the one who repeatedly messaged him, including on his personal WhatsApp number, while he was on vacation in Hawaii?
You could have gotten paid for a few more weeks (and maybe even secured a severance) had you been patient and let the official layoff notice come to you.
Learn and move on.
to be fair, slack not delivering messages is a very typical failure mode in my experience.
slack isn't fit for purpose. the missing messages will eventually show up but long after the negative impact has been realized.
It does however seem very very good at telling you a message wasn't sent/received (the past few years anyway)
I've used it full time for years and never had a "didn't you get that message?" situation in a DM
Damn what an insufferable person the author seems to be. I get it, what happened sucks for you, but maybe grow up.
Agreed. I can't help but think about what the actual story is here. The author clearly doesn't know all of the details and is making a lot of assumptions of malice.
I'd love to hear these kinds of stories from the mid-future: "My boss's AI fired me over FTL while he was on vacation on Mars"